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+----- Thread: Out of position penalty (/showthread.php?tid=4936)
Out of position penalty - RedCydranth - 09-28-2017
Hey, I have a kind of crazy notion. Why don't we have players only play their position? You're a DE, you can only play DE. You're a Safety, then you're only a Safety, not a CB or LB or WR or K or whatever causes the sim to give you insane stats and advantages. Timeconsumer posted a piece the other day about how QBs lining up as WRs breaks the sim for some reason. It would seem to me that the sim is far from perfect and by switching positions without true position changes, you're breaking the system and causing it to give us guys like Tuck having 21 sacks in 7 games.
Out of position penalty - ErMurazor - 09-28-2017
(09-27-2017, 11:45 PM)RedCydranth Wrote:Hey, I have a kind of crazy notion. Why don't we have players only play their position? You're a DE, you can only play DE. You're a Safety, then you're only a Safety, not a CB or LB or WR or K or whatever causes the sim to give you insane stats and advantages. Timeconsumer posted a piece the other day about how QBs lining up as WRs breaks the sim for some reason. It would seem to me that the sim is far from perfect and by switching positions without true position changes, you're breaking the system and causing it to give us guys like Tuck having 21 sacks in 7 games.
Hey I play DT a lot less than some of the other DEs in the league. Lol.
Out of position penalty - bovovovo - 09-28-2017
(09-28-2017, 01:45 AM)RedCydranth Wrote:Hey, I have a kind of crazy notion. Why don't we have players only play their position? You're a DE, you can only play DE. You're a Safety, then you're only a Safety, not a CB or LB or WR or K or whatever causes the sim to give you insane stats and advantages. Timeconsumer posted a piece the other day about how QBs lining up as WRs breaks the sim for some reason. It would seem to me that the sim is far from perfect and by switching positions without true position changes, you're breaking the system and causing it to give us guys like Tuck having 21 sacks in 7 games.
I think this is a good idea
Out of position penalty - iamslm22 - 09-28-2017
(09-28-2017, 01:45 AM)RedCydranth Wrote:Hey, I have a kind of crazy notion. Why don't we have players only play their position? You're a DE, you can only play DE. You're a Safety, then you're only a Safety, not a CB or LB or WR or K or whatever causes the sim to give you insane stats and advantages. Timeconsumer posted a piece the other day about how QBs lining up as WRs breaks the sim for some reason. It would seem to me that the sim is far from perfect and by switching positions without true position changes, you're breaking the system and causing it to give us guys like Tuck having 21 sacks in 7 games.
My only problem with this is it really limits teams. Lets say you have 3 awesome corners, and no DEs. Should you be forced to play an inactive at safety? And what about in the nickle? Are you now allowed to play your linebacker at the nickle? I don't like the idea of not being allowed to be flexible.
Out of position penalty - kckolbe - 09-28-2017
@Muford
That's a damn fine point. My only counter argument is that Bork ISN'T the best DT this year, Dan Miller is. Also, there are VERY few DT players...which also kinda shows DT does need a review.
Verns, meanwhile, is CLEARLY the best LB this year.
Now, playing out of position is pretty common due to lack of active players. Hell, Cushing plays NB in nickel and dime formations, which I kinda hate, since it is fucking up my tackles, but he is still primarily an LB.
Out of position penalty - bovovovo - 09-28-2017
(09-28-2017, 01:45 AM)RedCydranth Wrote:Hey, I have a kind of crazy notion. Why don't we have players only play their position? You're a DE, you can only play DE. You're a Safety, then you're only a Safety, not a CB or LB or WR or K or whatever causes the sim to give you insane stats and advantages. Timeconsumer posted a piece the other day about how QBs lining up as WRs breaks the sim for some reason. It would seem to me that the sim is far from perfect and by switching positions without true position changes, you're breaking the system and causing it to give us guys like Tuck having 21 sacks in 7 games.
Actually I thought about it for a minute and I don't agree with this anymore lol
Any team can do it. Teams know other teams can do it. It's not an exploit or anything if literally everyone can do it
It's also not over powered or anything in my opinion
I haven't looked into the safety-at-linebacker thing but for DE to DT it just takes advantage of the fact that teams typically don't put their best linemen in the inside. DEs have much less weight than DTs have, and it shows when teams have good interior linemen. Just last week the Hawks held Bork (who is apparently gaming the system) to a whopping zero stats. No tackles, no nothing. Because they actually have a good line. The Outlaws don't line Tuck up on the inside every game, only when they know he can take advantage of weaker interior linemen because if they were better he'd get stuffed out (which has happened in the past)
It's just gameplanning, and it's fair because every team can do it and every player can change archetypes and do it if they wanted. It's also not game breaking in my opinion because there are obvious ways to stop it if you gameplan for it. (Not sure about S playing LB for that though)
Out of position penalty - iamslm22 - 09-28-2017
(09-28-2017, 07:31 AM)bovovovo Wrote:Actually I thought about it for a minute and I don't agree with this anymore lol
Any team can do it. Teams know other teams can do it. It's not an exploit or anything if literally everyone can do it
It's also not over powered or anything in my opinion
I haven't looked into the safety-at-linebacker thing but for DE to DT it just takes advantage of the fact that teams typically don't put their best linemen in the inside. DEs have much less weight than DTs have, and it shows when teams have good interior linemen. Just last week the Hawks held Bork (who is apparently gaming the system) to a whopping zero stats. No tackles, no nothing. Because they actually have a good line. The Outlaws don't line Tuck up on the inside every game, only when they know he can take advantage of weaker interior linemen because if they were better he'd get stuffed out (which has happened in the past)
It's just gameplanning, and it's fair because every team can do it and every player can change archetypes and do it if they wanted. It's also not game breaking in my opinion because there are obvious ways to stop it if you gameplan for it. (Not sure about S playing LB for that though)
Yea this is a great point. Everyone knows you play DT. What's stopping another team from getting 4 awesome DEs? And what's stopping Philly from playing Hendrix inside at guard to stop you? I'm also unsure about Safety, but I think the out of position thing is fine, unless we want players to incur a penalty. I'm pretty sure in the NSFC championship game Cushing played corner to cover Christmas, but I could be wrong. Teams play dudes all over the field all the time. @kckolbe (tagged you to make sure I wasn't crazy about you playing corner)
Out of position penalty - bovovovo - 09-28-2017
(09-28-2017, 07:45 AM)iamslm22 Wrote:Yea this is a great point. Everyone knows you play DT. What's stopping another team from getting 4 awesome DEs? And what's stopping Philly from playing Hendrix inside at guard to stop you? I'm also unsure about Safety, but I think the out of position thing is fine, unless we want players to incur a penalty. I'm pretty sure in the NSFC championship game Cushing played corner to cover Christmas, but I could be wrong. Teams play dudes all over the field all the time. (tagged you to make sure I wasn't crazy about you playing corner)
I do know that the sim itself has extremely harsh penalties for certain out-of-position playing
Like trying WR at RB, the WR will get like half a yard per carry no matter how great their stats are, so for some positions it is built in like that. It just doesn't do the same for DE->DT, S->LB, LB->CB, S->CB, etc.
Out of position penalty - kckolbe - 09-28-2017
(09-28-2017, 05:45 AM)iamslm22 Wrote:Yea this is a great point. Everyone knows you play DT. What's stopping another team from getting 4 awesome DEs? And what's stopping Philly from playing Hendrix inside at guard to stop you? I'm also unsure about Safety, but I think the out of position thing is fine, unless we want players to incur a penalty. I'm pretty sure in the NSFC championship game Cushing played corner to cover Christmas, but I could be wrong. Teams play dudes all over the field all the time.
It's about having a DT position. Beginning of last season there was a big deal of almost no one creating CBs because S was so much better. We buffed CB because of it.
Now, however, we see that there are almost no DTs, but a LOT of DEs. We see that DE is more effective at DT, so buffing DT kinda makes sense.
The FS at LB, though, is WAY too effective. Like I said, the TOP two LBs in the league are S, and neither of them are near the TPE of the players they are beating. That's a huge red flag.
And yes, in 1.5 seasons, I have played one game at CB and one game at SS. I also play (complete guess here) 35-40% at NB due to our teams laughable CB depth. I am talking about primary positions, though (which Bork is a great example of).
In addition, I play a coverage LB, a hybrid of a traditional LB and a S. It makes sense for me to move around the field a little. If Lewith were a run stopping S, I wouldn't care, because that archetype implies that role. But can you really tell me it makes sense for someone with a FIFTY in tackling and a FORTY in strength to lead the entire league in tackles?
Out of position penalty - bovovovo - 09-28-2017
(09-28-2017, 08:00 AM)kckolbe Wrote:Now, however, we see that there are almost no DTs, but a LOT of DEs. We see that DE is more effective at DT, so buffing DT kinda makes sense.
Which is ironic because they nerfed DTs pretty hard earlier by jacking down their speed lol
Hence why you see a lot more people going DE