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+---- Thread: *There's something wrong with Probowl Voting (/showthread.php?tid=22649)
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - CDub2 - 06-02-2020
Positions are kinda silly anyways. Why not have edge rushers, interior linemen, and off ball linebackers? Then the LBs who pass rush can compete with ends who rush and it makes competition for DTs more balanced.
I feel like sometimes voters sort by sacks and INTs for pro bowls and just vote for those players.
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - HalfEatenOnionBagel - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 03:57 PM)CDub2 Wrote:voters sort by sacks and INTs for pro bowls and just vote for those players.
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - TeyonSchavari - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 01:03 PM)YoungTB Wrote:Also, it's important to note that GMs aren't even given basic stats to vote with. HO trusts them to vote without any bias plus research what they did with their careers, and for big ballots, not every GM is going to take the time to go through all of that and vote accordingly. It's a bad system all in all.
For the HoF ballot all of the players statistics from their career as well as their career accomplishments such as Ultimus titles, positional awards, league records, and position on career leaderboards (ex. 2nd in career rushing yards, 4th in career TDs, etc) are all provided. No research required.
For awards we are provided the statistics for all of the nominees from the awards committee.
For pro bowl yeah we have to do our own research but that is because pretty much everyone can receive votes for pro bowl.
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - infinitempg - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 03:57 PM)CDub2 Wrote:Positions are kinda silly anyways. Why not have edge rushers, interior linemen, and off ball linebackers? Then the LBs who pass rush can compete with ends who rush and it makes competition for DTs more balanced.
I think this would be made more difficult since those things aren't listed in the TPE tracker. I won't lie, I proposed last season to just use TPE tracker positions to make my life easier when putting together the ballot. It would definitely be beneficial to do DE/DT/MLB/SLB splits (or even just edge rushers like you said), but I'm not really convinced that change will really affect the voting because...
(06-02-2020, 03:57 PM)CDub2 Wrote:I feel like sometimes voters sort by sacks and INTs for pro bowls and just vote for those players.
I tend to try and go half and half for LBs and DLs - some are gonna get higher sacks and some will get higher tackles, so it's important to balance those out (and I also try to maintain 2 DE and 2 DT anyways). However I'm sure there are some voters who just take the first few names from the top of one stat. Same goes for DBs!
The work of the awards committee making nominations is actually really helpful here because it helps me check to see who others think are deserving of the top nod, and (as we've seen quite a few times) allows me to ensure they don't miss the pro bowl.
(06-02-2020, 02:03 PM)YoungTB Wrote:Also, it's important to note that GMs aren't even given basic stats to vote with. HO trusts them to vote without any bias plus research what they did with their careers, and for big ballots, not every GM is going to take the time to go through all of that and vote accordingly. It's a bad system all in all.
Yeah, no, I'm not copy-pasting every single player's stats into the Google Form - that takes way too much work. I could potentially build a scraper, but I'm not convinced it's worth the time. Voters can look at the index for that.
That being said, for Hall of Fame ballots we do provide a detailed listing of all a player's accolades, awards, titles, and records, as well as display screenshots of every single stat their player made. So there's no excuse for not having at least done a little research. I know there's a rule proposal on the way to make a designated HOF committee of boomers more experienced users who actually know old players, so we will see how that vote goes and who will be selected to it should it pass.
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - Billybolo53 - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 02:48 PM)AdamS Wrote:Yeah some of those DEs actualy played DT all season.
I have no problem with DE getting to the pro bowl as DTs if they played there. I think it's important to make that distinction tho. If Idlewad is in as a DT that's completely cool. I just hope it doesn't start a new meta where DE is seen as more effective than DT. Then we'll have to look at some arch balancing or something there.
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - YoungTB - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 04:48 PM)infinitempg Wrote:I think this would be made more difficult since those things aren't listed in the TPE tracker. I won't lie, I proposed last season to just use TPE tracker positions to make my life easier when putting together the ballot. It would definitely be beneficial to do DE/DT/MLB/SLB splits (or even just edge rushers like you said), but I'm not really convinced that change will really affect the voting because...
I tend to try and go half and half for LBs and DLs - some are gonna get higher sacks and some will get higher tackles, so it's important to balance those out (and I also try to maintain 2 DE and 2 DT anyways). However I'm sure there are some voters who just take the first few names from the top of one stat. Same goes for DBs!
The work of the awards committee making nominations is actually really helpful here because it helps me check to see who others think are deserving of the top nod, and (as we've seen quite a few times) allows me to ensure they don't miss the pro bowl.
Yeah, no, I'm not copy-pasting every single player's stats into the Google Form - that takes way too much work. I could potentially build a scraper, but I'm not convinced it's worth the time. Voters can look at the index for that.
That being said, for Hall of Fame ballots we do provide a detailed listing of all a player's accolades, awards, titles, and records, as well as display screenshots of every single stat their player made. So there's no excuse for not having at least done a little research. I know there's a rule proposal on the way to make a designated HOF committee of boomers more experienced users who actually know old players, so we will see how that vote goes and who will be selected to it should it pass.
(06-02-2020, 04:16 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote:For the HoF ballot all of the players statistics from their career as well as their career accomplishments such as Ultimus titles, positional awards, league records, and position on career leaderboards (ex. 2nd in career rushing yards, 4th in career TDs, etc) are all provided. No research required.
For awards we are provided the statistics for all of the nominees from the awards committee.
For pro bowl yeah we have to do our own research but that is because pretty much everyone can receive votes for pro bowl.
Apologies, I thought that was the case. I still stand by saying that there should be an independent group casting these ballots however.
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - caltroit_red_flames - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 10:28 AM)YoungTB Wrote:Pro Bowl and HOF voting should not be left to GMs.
ytb said something smart guys!
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - YoungTB - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 05:37 PM)caltroit_red_flames Wrote:ytb said something smart guys!It happens... sometimes
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - Thor - 06-02-2020
(06-03-2020, 06:48 AM)AdamS Wrote:Yeah some of those DEs actualy played DT all season.
And some TEs played WR all year but we're not voting in those two positions as one group, so why should we on defense?
Either players need to be put on the ballot at their listed position, or they need to be put on the ballot as the position they played all season and it needs to be consistent. There's no reason why the new rule proposal shouldn't pass for split DT/DE positions on pro bowl rosters. If the proposal that would make TEs that spend all season at WR ineligible at for TE awards/pro bowl, then the same case should be made for DE/DT as stated in the quote.
*There's something wrong with Probowl Voting - Forty Jordy - 06-02-2020
As a former DT with no respect, I agree.