International Simulation Football League
Retrospace111, a retrospective. - Printable Version

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RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - Ben - 06-28-2021

I don’t really know who you are I just wanna know why you hate Austin and Dallas lol


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - Painted - 06-28-2021

Put me in the screenshot


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - iStegosauruz - 06-28-2021

(06-28-2021, 08:38 PM)MisObvious Wrote: want to start of this message by apologizing for any feathers I may ruffle during the course of what I am about to say, some individuals may inadvertently feel like they are the subject of this discussion but all I can really say to that is, that if the shoe fits, well…wear it.

Now to get started with what I really wanted to say. I joined this league approximately one in-real-life year ago. I was part of the S23 DSFL class and am a member of the S24 ISFL class. Over the course of my time in this league, I like to think that I have managed to get along with most people that I have interacted with, and I truly hope that I have done my best to help better the league in whatever way is possible, whether that be financial donations, taking on league jobs, communicating with new users, or simply just trying to be a friendly an understanding ear to anyone who needs it. As my time in the league has grown longer, I have become more and more involved with the inner workings of the league and in return have had less and less fun throughout that time. You see, there is a problem that exists within this league and it would be in bad taste for me to generically label this problem as HO, because unfortunately, that really does not speak to the heart of the problem. The problem which I am about to speak of lies much deeper than a fake governing body, it goes into what this league is really all about. It is a big idea to try to grasp I know, but I will do my best to present my concerns as eloquently as I can.

What is HO, or what should it be, may actually be the better question to ask right now. Obviously, everything that follows is my own personal opinion but I hope that it is an opinion shared by the vast majority of users in this league.
Fun, it is small word, but it is also an important word that is going to carry a ton of weight throughout this discussion of HO’s role in this league. Now it might sound overly simplified to put it this way, but HO truly only has one job in this league, and that is to protect and engage the community in a way that makes this league more fun for EVERYONE. Everyone you say? Yes, everyone. Our community consists of 100s of users from all walks of life who are either here because they love football, or because they love being part of a community. These are the only two types of people that join this league and these are the people that our HO is designed to protect.

Sadly, our HO has forgotten their true purpose within this league, they have taken their position of service and manipulated it into a position of power. This is not an elected group of individuals that the users collectively chose to lead this league, instead it is a group of hand-picked individuals that have no check in place for their seemingly unlimited power. This HO does not spend their time protecting the users of this league but instead spends their time fining new users for tampering because they say they miss playing with one of their friends; this HO spends their time punishing dedicated users for accidently leaking one pick in a draft seasons ago; this HO spends their time fining GMs because a player wants to come back and play for a team he has always been apart of; this HO spends their time allowing a member with a personal vendetta against a user to head up an investigation, and label it as malicious misconduct when it has been an established practice dating back approximately two years.
Does this sound like an entity that is truly protecting this community and the fun that this league is supposed to provide? Or does this sound like an entity that has allowed its power to go to its head? Why are there so many controversies in this league? Why is every decision come to by HO resisted? Is it really because people dislike HO? No, its because people have seen what HO has become and they want their league back. Serious thought needs to be given going forward as to what the purpose of this league is. Is this league for fun or is it a job? Because if it is for fun, when are we going to get back to letting it be fun?
It saddens me that in this league, HO spends more time investigating and punishing than they do actually engaging with the user base and seeing what they can do to better improve the league experience. HO always seems to keep itself at an arms distance from the rest of the league and then swoop in when it is the appropriate time to strike a user down. Why is this group of “leaders” so distant from the rest of us? Why do we have to argue for transparency? What could HO possibly be discussing that is so important in a sim-football league that it must be kept from the eyes of the users? Why does HO treat their job as a chore and continually try to distance themselves from things like awards instead of actively engaging in them and doing their best to create an experience that everyone enjoys? Is it simply because they hate their job and cannot be bothered? If so then what are you still doing in the position? If you love your position then you have to love the users in this league. Stop loving what you want this league to be and start loving it for what it actually is. Start seriously asking yourself why you want to be in the position you are in, what makes you the best person for this job? Because if you think you are the best person for the job because you are the smartest guy in the room or because all your ideas are better than everyone else’s then you need to stop, remove yourself from the position, and let someone who loves the users of this league take your spot.
All I ask is that each and everyone of you think about where this league currently is and where you would like it to be, and ask yourself one simple question, “Why can’t it be the way that I want it to be?” This league is a community of outstanding people, people that I love getting to spend time with on a daily basis and people that I truly care about. This community has carried me through some hard times and it is honestly hard for me to imagine not getting to hang out with each of you on a daily basis. That is why I poured myself into this league over the past year, I did it for all of you, not for my own personal gain but for the betterment of this league. Was I perfect, no absolutely not, but I loved my work and I loved the people I worked with and worked for. Where is that mentality from HO members? Please give me more of that.

In conclusion, I just want to be the first to officially announce my vote of no confidence in the current regime that occupies HO. Changes are needed and it is my hope that we don’t lose anymore users that love this league for the sake of the power that some wish so desperately to hold on to.


This is a lot to unpack and I absolutely may miss some stuff but I'll dive into a few of my thoughts. 
1. The first thing I pull from this is the comment about awards. I voted to allow us to not have to vote on awards in the rules summit when that change was made. My reasoning at the time was simple - there are litany of offseason tasks from grading regression to running the rules summit to the draft and awards were something on top of it that was an added piece of stress. I didn't personally feel like I was putting the time necessary into fleshing out the voting and that wasn't fair for the league. On one hand I absolutely understand the argument that we should still care about them but as regression has grown bigger and bigger and is more to handle - and mind you unlike PBE we don't bring in outside individuals to audit regression - I'd rather focus my time there because otherwise it doesn't get done. I'd be fully in favor of a measure that would allow HO to opt out of voting depending on the division of roles and tasks within the entire group, but with what I've been assigned the last few offseasons I would have felt bad not putting the full time into fleshing out awards the league deserves or having to make a choice about what to do well and what to do poorly. 

2. In terms of keeping the league at arms length that's a more difficult conversation. In general there are people who break the rules no matter what happens and we need to be there to handle those issues. I personally don't like punishing users and wish we didn't have to, but inevitably no matter how many times we ban a multi someone else makes another one. We put the time into investigating those situations to ensure we're actively levying the responsible punishment on someone. Every thread we post relating to punishments within the league often has a portion of the league outcrying we didn't investigate enough or we investigate too much. Its a difficult balance to strike. In recent seasons we've tried to be more proactive with outreach. Swanty and Darkness are both constantly on the forums engaging on decisions that have been made or just in general - I saw a post in media today that tagged Swanty about the current state of kick returns for example. At the same point it was only back in March we had a full survey about pros and cons in the league now that was both responded to verbally but also had substantive changes to the site made because of it. I don't disagree entirely, but there's a balance to be struck and there's two camps who always feel one way or the other here. We could do more outreach and are trying to be proactive with that as well but there's also a balance to be struck between that and the actual functions of the league - again reflecting back to things like the draft, regression, recruitment, etc.


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - infinitempg - 06-28-2021

(06-28-2021, 08:38 PM)MisObvious Wrote: want to start of this message by apologizing for any feathers I may ruffle during the course of what I am about to say, some individuals may inadvertently feel like they are the subject of this discussion but all I can really say to that is, that if the shoe fits, well…wear it.

Now to get started with what I really wanted to say. I joined this league approximately one in-real-life year ago. I was part of the S23 DSFL class and am a member of the S24 ISFL class. Over the course of my time in this league, I like to think that I have managed to get along with most people that I have interacted with, and I truly hope that I have done my best to help better the league in whatever way is possible, whether that be financial donations, taking on league jobs, communicating with new users, or simply just trying to be a friendly an understanding ear to anyone who needs it. As my time in the league has grown longer, I have become more and more involved with the inner workings of the league and in return have had less and less fun throughout that time. You see, there is a problem that exists within this league and it would be in bad taste for me to generically label this problem as HO, because unfortunately, that really does not speak to the heart of the problem. The problem which I am about to speak of lies much deeper than a fake governing body, it goes into what this league is really all about. It is a big idea to try to grasp I know, but I will do my best to present my concerns as eloquently as I can.

What is HO, or what should it be, may actually be the better question to ask right now. Obviously, everything that follows is my own personal opinion but I hope that it is an opinion shared by the vast majority of users in this league.
Fun, it is small word, but it is also an important word that is going to carry a ton of weight throughout this discussion of HO’s role in this league. Now it might sound overly simplified to put it this way, but HO truly only has one job in this league, and that is to protect and engage the community in a way that makes this league more fun for EVERYONE. Everyone you say? Yes, everyone. Our community consists of 100s of users from all walks of life who are either here because they love football, or because they love being part of a community. These are the only two types of people that join this league and these are the people that our HO is designed to protect.

Sadly, our HO has forgotten their true purpose within this league, they have taken their position of service and manipulated it into a position of power. This is not an elected group of individuals that the users collectively chose to lead this league, instead it is a group of hand-picked individuals that have no check in place for their seemingly unlimited power. This HO does not spend their time protecting the users of this league but instead spends their time fining new users for tampering because they say they miss playing with one of their friends; this HO spends their time punishing dedicated users for accidently leaking one pick in a draft seasons ago; this HO spends their time fining GMs because a player wants to come back and play for a team he has always been apart of; this HO spends their time allowing a member with a personal vendetta against a user to head up an investigation, and label it as malicious misconduct when it has been an established practice dating back approximately two years.
Does this sound like an entity that is truly protecting this community and the fun that this league is supposed to provide? Or does this sound like an entity that has allowed its power to go to its head? Why are there so many controversies in this league? Why is every decision come to by HO resisted? Is it really because people dislike HO? No, its because people have seen what HO has become and they want their league back. Serious thought needs to be given going forward as to what the purpose of this league is. Is this league for fun or is it a job? Because if it is for fun, when are we going to get back to letting it be fun?
It saddens me that in this league, HO spends more time investigating and punishing than they do actually engaging with the user base and seeing what they can do to better improve the league experience. HO always seems to keep itself at an arms distance from the rest of the league and then swoop in when it is the appropriate time to strike a user down. Why is this group of “leaders” so distant from the rest of us? Why do we have to argue for transparency? What could HO possibly be discussing that is so important in a sim-football league that it must be kept from the eyes of the users? Why does HO treat their job as a chore and continually try to distance themselves from things like awards instead of actively engaging in them and doing their best to create an experience that everyone enjoys? Is it simply because they hate their job and cannot be bothered? If so then what are you still doing in the position? If you love your position then you have to love the users in this league. Stop loving what you want this league to be and start loving it for what it actually is. Start seriously asking yourself why you want to be in the position you are in, what makes you the best person for this job? Because if you think you are the best person for the job because you are the smartest guy in the room or because all your ideas are better than everyone else’s then you need to stop, remove yourself from the position, and let someone who loves the users of this league take your spot.
All I ask is that each and everyone of you think about where this league currently is and where you would like it to be, and ask yourself one simple question, “Why can’t it be the way that I want it to be?” This league is a community of outstanding people, people that I love getting to spend time with on a daily basis and people that I truly care about. This community has carried me through some hard times and it is honestly hard for me to imagine not getting to hang out with each of you on a daily basis. That is why I poured myself into this league over the past year, I did it for all of you, not for my own personal gain but for the betterment of this league. Was I perfect, no absolutely not, but I loved my work and I loved the people I worked with and worked for. Where is that mentality from HO members? Please give me more of that.

In conclusion, I just want to be the first to officially announce my vote of no confidence in the current regime that occupies HO. Changes are needed and it is my hope that we don’t lose anymore users that love this league for the sake of the power that some wish so desperately to hold on to.

I just want to respond to this as someone who used to be in HO. People don't join HO because they are power-hungry individuals. They join HO to try and improve the league and make it better. I hated punishing users, but if users do things that require punishing, then they have to be punished. Bex alone has beat herself up staying in her position as commissioner - she has had all the rights in the world to step down so long ago but yet she stays on.

When shit like this happens, trust me, the league feels like a chore. HO members would much rather be doing things like working on ISFL Gameday or coming up with the Budget Team or working on the new Create A Player tool. There are so many things that HO does behind the scenes that both go unappreciated or unseen by the normal user and that also end up feeling like a chore. Regression is the worst. Managing the offseason schedule is the worst. A lot of the behind the scenes things are chore-like because they have to be to keep the place running.

This situation specifically is not all Head Office's fault. Unfortunately not every multi can be caught, and we don't spend our days checking every user's IP to see if they are a multi - that would be a terrible user experience. I don't think anyone in their right mind thought excelsior was zamir.

I understand that no matter what HO does, it will never be good enough. But I don't think a vote of no confidence is the way to go.


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - Bayley - 06-28-2021

Congrats, you proved whatever experiment you wanted to do. Head Office would have never found this and probably shouldn't have. I'll even go as far as it would have been luck to find something like this. Zamir, you proved you can be a good soul and now decided to call it an experiment. It shows that you can only act good for so long.

The running of IPs is so manual and I honestly don't want HO running IPs. In theory, they should have better things to do. This is a damnation on Zamir, not HO. Lets get our pitchforks out for the right person.

I thought you were better than this, Zamir.


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - NicholasTheGreat - 06-28-2021

what the actual fuck


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - Z-Whiz - 06-28-2021

imagine getting got by a copypasta


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - Ben - 06-28-2021

Yo does anyone else here play fullback? I wanna be in the drama thread team


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - DeadlyPlayer - 06-28-2021

(06-28-2021, 08:54 PM)Z-Whiz Wrote: imagine getting got by a copypasta
ooope


RE: Retrospace111, a retrospective. - Tonzy - 06-28-2021

I love how HO and ex-HO respond to my quote when a new user pulls it from a post I made a while back but none of the HO members responded to it when I made it back then. Funny stuff lol.