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+--- Thread: Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part (/showthread.php?tid=15542)
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - Dylandeluxe - 09-18-2019
So after seeing the punishment given to Butters, I initially thought that's harsh but fair seeing as their is precedent.
But I got to thinking on how the league handles roles that grant Mod powers on the forums and thus being able to see IP's
After reaching out to several Rookie Mentor's and GM's who have all been granted mod powers on the forums, I asked if there is onboarding process when accepting a job that grants Mod powers. Any training that says "Please review rules regarding your position" etc etc etc. All responded with no they were just kinda granted them and told to run with it.
And I know you can always argue "Should have read the rules" But with only a link in the rookie guide there is nothing that directs you or explicitly ask you to read all the rules. So how can you punish a member when you didn't provide proper training on mod powers when given the job?
That is why I question Butter's punishment. He posted the picture with an IP and the intent of showing only to show that a banned user was using a different account had a matching IP with the banned user. Which is a blatant violation of the rule I wont argue. But as soon as he was informed that he should take that down due the nature of the photo he did not hesitate to delete it when he realized he made a mistake. The photo did not exist for more than 30-45 seconds. This punishment seems a bit harsh for a user who has made recent amends to be a better community member. I think leniency and better judgement should be used in this case.
Now before I type this next part I want to say and emphasize that I have the utmost respect for the difficult job HO has to do in order for us to enjoy this amazingly fun league and to keep order and balance.
After doing some research on the discord for sake of this argument I have found that a member of HO has violated rule D8 and another member has a violation depending on how you interpret the rule.
I have screenshot evidence at the request of HO.
@ADwyer87 posted a screenshot from the forums to the NSFL Discord that displayed his own IP. I can see this not being a true violation but certainly does not set a good example when you are the one handing down other punishments. This infraction happened March of 2018
@124715 posted a screenshot from the forums to the NSFL discord that displayed another user's IP address. This is a direct violation of rule D8. This infraction happened also in March of 2018 but is not related to the first.
Now according to the rules shouldn't both members lose their roles in HO for two seasons?
I think that both members didn't intend to violate the rule and both were harmless mistakes and I also respect both members and don't actually think they should step down from their roles. But I think more should be done to direct new users and users who are granted mod powers to read the rule and guidelines and have training. Otherwise how can you hold them accountable when you never provided them the tools or instructions to begin with?
P.S. I found plenty of other examples of IP's being posted by mistake but chose to highlight these two. Scrub your discords People.
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - ScorpXCracker - 09-18-2019
tl;dr perma ban numbers
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - Raven - 09-18-2019
How is enforcing a rule in the rule book a failure on HO's part. Wouldn't the failure be not enforcing the rule in other instances?
![[Image: 8708238.1514799672_t.png]](https://static.esea.net/global/images/teams/8708238.1514799672_t.png)
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - Dylandeluxe - 09-18-2019
(09-18-2019, 11:24 AM)Raven Wrote:How is enforcing a rule in the rule book a failure on HO's part. Wouldn't the failure be not enforcing the rule in other instances?
The failure is in not ensuing proper training when being granted a role with mod powers on the forums.
This is 100% just my opinion.
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - IsaStarcrossed - 09-18-2019
(09-18-2019, 11:24 AM)Raven Wrote:How is enforcing a rule in the rule book a failure on HO's part. Wouldn't the failure be not enforcing the rule in other instances?
The failure comes in HO's lack of communication and overall instruction to people being given new abilities and roles. I've seen at least a half dozen players who have mod abilities say since last night that they either had no idea that their abilities showed IPs or that it would be against the rules to post a screenshot containing those IPs. Most of them said something along the lines of "thank god Butter did it before I made that mistake". And that is just those who have come out and said anything about it. Did Butters break a rule? Yes. Should it be a rule? Yes. Should the punishment be so harsh that it potentially pushes a player inactive when no one actually knows the rule even exists? Absolutely not.
The lack of any real training for these guys is every bit a failure on HO and stuff like this needs to be taught and mentioned when new, young players get these roles. There is no reason anyone should be making comments along the lines of "they gave me permissions and said good luck". That. That is failure on HO.
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - Duilio05 - 09-18-2019
Dylan apply to be an HOintern and make Forum/Discord Trainings a thing for new league employees
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - Dylandeluxe - 09-18-2019
(09-18-2019, 12:03 PM)Duilio05 Wrote:Dylan apply to be an HOintern and make Forum/Discord Trainings a thing for new league employees
If that's something that HO thinks would be beneficial I wouldn't be opposed. But I am a full time worker and student and might be hesitant to take the roll for fear of negligence due to time commitment.
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - ADwyer87 - 09-18-2019
next time you get arrested, try saying that no one in the police office ever came to you and said "dont break the law"
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - Raven - 09-18-2019
(09-18-2019, 07:31 PM)IsaStarcrossed Wrote:The failure comes in HO's lack of communication and overall instruction to people being given new abilities and roles. I've seen at least a half dozen players who have mod abilities say since last night that they either had no idea that their abilities showed IPs or that it would be against the rules to post a screenshot containing those IPs. Most of them said something along the lines of "thank god Butter did it before I made that mistake". And that is just those who have come out and said anything about it. Did Butters break a rule? Yes. Should it be a rule? Yes. Should the punishment be so harsh that it potentially pushes a player inactive when no one actually knows the rule even exists? Absolutely not.
The lack of any real training for these guys is every bit a failure on HO and stuff like this needs to be taught and mentioned when new, young players get these roles. There is no reason anyone should be making comments along the lines of "they gave me permissions and said good luck". That. That is failure on HO.
Would failure not come down on the head of that position? It's HO failure for not hiring heads who tell people not to post IPs. I think not posting IP is a bit of an inherent thing you can think of yourself. Also people going IA for fuckin up and then getting salty they get whipped with a rule? Sounds more like a them problem.
Also not knowing a rule exists doesnt exempt you from punishment for breaking it.
Why Butter's Punishment is a failure on HO's part - Dylandeluxe - 09-18-2019
(09-18-2019, 12:34 PM)ADwyer87 Wrote:next time you get arrested, try saying that no one in the police office ever came to you and said "dont break the law"
I feel that the point of my post was missed. And that is unfortunate.