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+---- Forum: Appeals Decisions (https://forums.sim-football.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=472)
+---- Thread: jeffie43 Appeals Decision (/showthread.php?tid=21187)
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - woelkers - 04-15-2020
@jeffie43 has appealed a punishment received from HO, found here. The appeals committee (myself, @iamslm22, @bovovovo, @Bzerkap, and @Bwestfield, with @TomHanks and @manicmav36 recused) reviewed evidence turned over to us from HO, and decided 4 to 1 to uphold the punishment as outlined by HO.
It is plain to us that asking a player to retire and recreate, knowing that it will deprive another team of his services and give one's own team a chance to claim the new player, constitutes tampering under IV.A.1, and, given that the punishment set by HO is in line with recent precedent, we find that it is appropriate to retain that decision.
Any questions regarding this decision may be directed to myself or any other participating member of the appeals team.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - Memento Mori - 04-15-2020
I maintain that this is really dumb. Gwdjohnson's player was a 57 TPE S18 create, and Jeff contacted him during the S20 playoffs (when recreating would make him a S22 create), after Myrtle Beach had already played their playoff game against Norfolk.
Gwdjohnson is now an active user in the league, and it's quite clear that even if it's technically wrong according to the rules to encourage a S18 57 TPE player to retire and make a new player that would have 4 extra pre-regression seasons, doing so would increase the chances that Gwdjohnson enjoyed the league and remained active.
The fact that the appeals team have upheld the decision that bringing back an IA player who hadn't updated since their first update over six months ago is a punishable offense is, simply, absurd.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - RotticusScott - 04-15-2020
In the name of the old HO and the new, and by the title of my lord commander Jeffrey LaVert, I demand a trial by combat.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - Gwdjohnson - 04-15-2020
Still wish HO or anyone had contacted me about it, but it is what it is.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - bovovovo - 04-15-2020
(04-15-2020, 01:54 PM)Memento Mori Wrote:Gwdjohnson is now an active user in the league, and it's quite clear that even if it's technically wrong according to the rules to encourage a S18 57 TPE player to retire and make a new player that would have 4 extra pre-regression seasons, doing so would increase the chances that Gwdjohnson enjoyed the league and remained active.
Idk if I’m supposed to comment personal views or not but whatever lol I’ll just say this and then dip. This was a toughie for me. You’re definitely right that it’s super weak sauce tampering, and convincing an IA on another team to come back and be active is great and happens all the time, but given the evidence we had on this specific instance it was still tampering by the letter of the law unfortunately
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - bex - 04-15-2020
I'd like to take a moment to clarify. It is not simply the fact that he brought an individual back to the league to join Myrtle Beach. It is that he encouraged the player to retire right away, ensuring that his player could not be used the following year and expressed intent of claiming the new player on waivers.
During the course of the investigation, HO members attempted to contact certain users involved with the investigation, but received no response.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - Gwdjohnson - 04-15-2020
(04-15-2020, 07:33 PM)bex Wrote:During the course of the investigation, HO members attempted to contact certain users involved with the investigation, but received no response.
Assuming this means me, where and when? Idk if maybe at some point I received an anonymous Discord request or something (no recollection of something like this happening), but surely the first move should've been a site PM about this? The forum is where everyone is, and Discord is just an extension of the forums. Again, I'm like 90% sure I didn't get any Discord contact, but even if I did, it seems a little absurd that I wasn't contacted on the site whatsoever, especially if Discord contact got no response.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - DrunkenTeddy - 04-15-2020
This sucks, Jeffie helped someone get interested in the league again who had long lost interest. If MB didn't draft Gabe would Jeffie have been punished? Every other team had a chance to draft him. If he had been drafted by London would this be punishable?
I say this as someone who was resurrected here by Jeffie around the same time as Gabe. Jeffie clearly had the best interest of the league at heart.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - RainDelay - 04-15-2020
Instead of dwelling on the fact that what Jeff did is illegal, I believe this would be a good opportunity to discuss whether or not what Jeff did should be illegal, in which case I firmly say no.
jeffie43 Appeals Decision - Memento Mori - 04-15-2020
(04-15-2020, 07:24 PM)bovovovo Wrote:Idk if I’m supposed to comment personal views or not but whatever lol I’ll just say this and then dip. This was a toughie for me. You’re definitely right that it’s super weak sauce tampering, and convincing an IA on another team to come back and be active is great and happens all the time, but given the evidence we had on this specific instance it was still tampering by the letter of the law unfortunatelyYeah, that's kinda my point though. If it's against the rules, but what he did is "great", then the problem is the rules. Not what Jeff did.
The decision lacks common sense, has massively affected Jeff's enthusiasm for the league (he's left all league discord servers for the time being and I hope he does come back because he's fantastic and has recruited many other people to the league who didn't ever play for Myrtle Beach), has soured people's opinion of HO, and means that I've had to answer lots of questions from S23 rookies reassuring them that they're not tampering because they're confused by all of this.
No one has come out of this looking good, and I can't think of a single positive that's come from the situation.
And because Teddy already brought it up, I'll add that there's absolutely no way that Jeff did this in order to gain a competitive advantage. As Teddy brings up, Jeff recruited lots of players who played against us and who beat us.