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+-- Forum: League Office (https://forums.sim-football.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Punishments (https://forums.sim-football.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=279)
+--- Thread: Faded's Predictions Punishment (/showthread.php?tid=32900)
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - shadyshoelace - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 12:26 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote: I agree with this.
Also, it was Faded's first offense, 44 TPE is pretty steep, on top of 7M fine plus out of a league job which cuts off more income for future seasons. Yes cheating is terrible but in the grand scheme of things this was a selfish action, not one that was intended to hurt others. Sure *maybe* a short suspension could also have been warranted, but imo this punishment should be enough of a deterrent and hopefully he learned his lesson. But if he does anything like this again, then yes ban him
44 TPE is not "steep" when it's just taking away the TPE he gave himself by cheating lol. Taking away the money someone stole from a bank and then letting them walk isn't punishing them. 7M is pretty big relative to other fines but let's not act like it's actually a significant deterrent to anything in this league - especially for a user with a 105M bank account, but even in general. He's out of one job, but unlike the Noble fine that numbers linked earlier, this punishment does nothing to prevent him from taking another league job in the future to recoup that lost income.
Basically, what this teaches us is that for $7M, you can buy a pass to cheat where the best case scenario is that you get away with it and the worst case scenario is that you lose the things you only had because of the cheating anyway and lose one specific league job. I have no idea how the Noble precedent wasn't used here, which included a larger fine, a site ban, a player suspension, and a multi-season blanket job ban.
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - slothfacekilla - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 03:15 PM)shadyshoelace Wrote:(06-18-2021, 12:26 PM)TeyonSchavari Wrote: I agree with this.
Also, it was Faded's first offense, 44 TPE is pretty steep, on top of 7M fine plus out of a league job which cuts off more income for future seasons. Yes cheating is terrible but in the grand scheme of things this was a selfish action, not one that was intended to hurt others. Sure *maybe* a short suspension could also have been warranted, but imo this punishment should be enough of a deterrent and hopefully he learned his lesson. But if he does anything like this again, then yes ban him
especially for a user with a 105M bank account
I wonder how a user with access to sim results could pump up their bank account so high hmmmmm
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - Swanty - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 03:15 PM)shadyshoelace Wrote: 44 TPE is not "steep" when it's just taking away the TPE he gave himself by cheating lol. Taking away the money someone stole from a bank and then letting them walk isn't punishing them. 7M is pretty big relative to other fines but let's not act like it's actually a significant deterrent to anything in this league - especially for a user with a 105M bank account, but even in general. He's out of one job, but unlike the Noble fine that numbers linked earlier, this punishment does nothing to prevent him from taking another league job in the future to recoup that lost income.
Basically, what this teaches us is that for $7M, you can buy a pass to cheat where the best case scenario is that you get away with it and the worst case scenario is that you lose the things you only had because of the cheating anyway. Getting fired from the job that enabled you to cheat is just table stakes. I have no idea how the Noble precedent wasn't used here, which included a larger fine, a site ban, a player suspension, and a multi-season job ban.
I think a lot of people here are ignoring the biggest thing about receiving a punishment: being called out and publicly shamed in front of your peers and friends as someone who tried to cheat.
I would think that would be a bigger deterrent to cheating than, say, the prospect of a forced 2 week break from the forum or a little more TPE taken away from your dot football player. I'm sure faded doesn't give a crap about his TPE and bank account right now.
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - slothfacekilla - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 03:24 PM)Swanty Wrote:(06-18-2021, 03:15 PM)shadyshoelace Wrote: 44 TPE is not "steep" when it's just taking away the TPE he gave himself by cheating lol. Taking away the money someone stole from a bank and then letting them walk isn't punishing them. 7M is pretty big relative to other fines but let's not act like it's actually a significant deterrent to anything in this league - especially for a user with a 105M bank account, but even in general. He's out of one job, but unlike the Noble fine that numbers linked earlier, this punishment does nothing to prevent him from taking another league job in the future to recoup that lost income.
Basically, what this teaches us is that for $7M, you can buy a pass to cheat where the best case scenario is that you get away with it and the worst case scenario is that you lose the things you only had because of the cheating anyway. Getting fired from the job that enabled you to cheat is just table stakes. I have no idea how the Noble precedent wasn't used here, which included a larger fine, a site ban, a player suspension, and a multi-season job ban.
I think a lot of people here are ignoring the biggest thing about receiving a punishment: being called out and publicly shamed in front of your peers and friends as someone who tried to cheat.
I would think that would be a bigger deterrent to cheating than, say, the prospect of a forced 2 week break from the forum or a little more TPE taken away from your dot football player. I'm sure faded doesn't give a crap about his TPE and bank account right now.
If he didn't care about tpe and money why would he cheat to improve both of those situations for himself?
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - sapp2013 - 06-18-2021
Don't mind me, just wiggling my way into this convo.
Idk what precedence was used because I lost all trust in links when they log me out of the site (totally not looking at anyone in particular) but anyone remember when noble did a very similar thing?
https://forums.sim-football.com/showthread.php?tid=4644
Peperridge farms remembers (and sapp too!)
Granted, faded is not noble (or is he? See noble multi witch hunt link that I failed to provide) but it is similar and should be considered.
Can a non accused member appeal for a harsher punishment? Not saying I disagree or want to do this, but I feel others have stronger opinions than me.
Viva la revolucion and a hearty Heck HO!
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - sapp2013 - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 03:33 PM)sapp2013 Wrote: Don't mind me, just wiggling my way into this convo.
Idk what precedence was used because I lost all trust in links when they log me out of the site (totally not looking at anyone in particular) but anyone remember when noble did a very similar thing?
https://forums.sim-football.com/showthread.php?tid=4644
Peperridge farms remembers (and sapp too!)
Granted, faded is not noble (or is he? See noble multi witch hunt link that I failed to provide) but it is similar and should be considered.
Can a non accused member appeal for a harsher punishment? Not saying I disagree or want to do this, but I feel others have stronger opinions than me.
Viva la revolucion and a hearty Heck HO!
Lmao faded is on my team.
#FreeFaded #HeDidNothingWrong
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - shadyshoelace - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 03:24 PM)Swanty Wrote: I think a lot of people here are ignoring the biggest thing about receiving a punishment: being called out and publicly shamed in front of your peers and friends as someone who tried to cheat.
I would think that would be a bigger deterrent to cheating than, say, the prospect of a forced 2 week break from the forum or a little more TPE taken away from your dot football player. I'm sure faded doesn't give a crap about his TPE and bank account right now.
Meh, the punishments forum is littered with the names of users who have done things they shouldn't have, been publicly called out for them, and continued to be respected users of the site. Which is good - I'm not arguing that people should be blackballed forever - but the point is that it's not much of a deterrent when you can see things will blow over pretty quickly.
I agree with you that TPE and bank don't matter much, which is exactly why I think the punishments in the Noble precedent are more fitting - concrete league-related things that are taken away from the user: their ability to hold jobs, their ability to participate in forum-related league happenings, and a season of their player's participation in the league. The vast majority of people are in this league for some combination of two reasons, to interact with other users and to see their players play simulated football. IMO (temporarily) taking away those two things is far and away the most effective deterrent to serious offenses. Certainly more than a bank fine and some finger wagging from the community.
Editing to say that I have nothing against faded in particular and my comments here aren't out of concern that he will continue to do bad things in the future. I'm raising issues with the punishment because this league heavily relies on precedent for future punishments (except when they just decide to ignore it, I guess?) and I believe this precedent is very, very bad. Deterring a user who has cheated once from cheating a second time is less important to me than just deterring people from cheating in the first place.
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - Oles - 06-18-2021
Can we talk about the fact that HO took the 44 tpe away, and then linked to punishments in which the tpe removed was double what the person in question illegally obtained? I know it doesn't matter now since he retired and all, but he really should've lost 88 tpe at the minimum if HO was trying to keep the precedence of losing double the amount of tpe. Doesn't really matter now since he retired though
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - shadyshoelace - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 03:44 PM)Oles Wrote: Can we talk about the fact that HO took the 44 tpe away, and then linked to punishments in which the tpe removed was double what the person in question illegally obtained? I know it doesn't matter now since he retired and all, but he really should've lost 88 tpe at the minimum if HO was trying to keep the precedence of losing double the amount of tpe. Doesn't really matter now since he retired though
Yo this is a great point, thanks for catching that. I am so confused about the use of precedent in this league.
RE: Faded's Predictions Punishment - SwankyPants31 - 06-18-2021
(06-18-2021, 03:44 PM)Oles Wrote: Can we talk about the fact that HO took the 44 tpe away, and then linked to punishments in which the tpe removed was double what the person in question illegally obtained? I know it doesn't matter now since he retired and all, but he really should've lost 88 tpe at the minimum if HO was trying to keep the precedence of losing double the amount of tpe. Doesn't really matter now since he retired though
This is a great point. All this "punishment" does in terms of TPE is set the user back to where they would be if they hadn't cheated. There's no penalty for the actual cheating that took place.
The fine is pretty much negligible, and I'm assuming will be increased due to gambling winnings he had while all this was going on.
Sure he was removed from HO, but as Shady pointed out there is nothing to prevent him from taking on another league job (assuming someone would hire him).
It's the definition of a slap on the wrist, name and shame punishment for someone who abused a position of power to violate the integrity of the league.