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*Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - JuOSu - 06-29-2021
For the record, this is not a complaint or a criticism to the people in charge of this and I am mainly doing this just because I need to earn money and this was a topic that was often discussed in our locker room so I was curious how it actually looked.
This season, we were talking a lot in our locker room about how late the NOLA games were in terms of the schedule. Obviously some teams always have to go late in the stream, but as someone from Europe I have direct impact from when our team plays. One could obviously argue that I could just go to bed and watch the next day, but I enjoy watching the games. I usually am still awake so I try to stay up to 2 am to watch them. However, when we go on late, we often then get closer to 3 am and it's pushing the limit. So noticing that NOLA kept playing late was frustrating and I was curious to see if there was a trend.
While I know some people watch all the games, I assume a significant portion of people only watch their own team.
Now, what I found was very different than what I expected. I imagined in my head that games were chosen manually as to when they go on, like it was the case back in the day (or at least to my knowledge it was the case this way). However, it seems that this is no longer the case. Instead of picking when games go on, we just go by the order that is shown in the index (and likely in game I assume). And every second (or almost every second) week, we reverse the order.
What this means is that there is some randomness to when teams play, but it's far from equal in terms of who goes on where. The biggest example of this is the Berlin Fire Salamanders. See, the Berlin Fire Salamanders are listed first in the index when it comes to the weekly games, for every single game. So basically this means the Fire Salamanders were either shown first or last - every single week! I am obviously not on that team and I wonder if anyone even noticed this, but it was definitely a shock for me to see this when I was doing the research.
It also means that there is quite a range from where teams play usually. On average, if the order was completely even somehow, every team would be shown on average in the 4th spot. Here are the actual averages for this past season:
Colorado Yeti 3.44
Philadelphia Liberty 3.50
Berlin Fire Salamanders 3.63
Yellowknife Wraiths 3.63
Arizona Outlaws 3.69
Austin Copperheads 3.69
Sarasota Sailfish 3.75
New York Silverbacks 3.88
Orange County Otters 4.06
Chicago Butchers 4.19
Baltimore Hawks 4.31
Honolulu Hahalua 4.44
New Orleans Second Line 4.69
San Jose Sabercats 5.13
So in essence, our locker room feeling wasn't wrong! On average, we did play very late on average. Not last however, as the San Jose Sabercats got an even worse deal than we did.
On top of that, let's look at first and last spots since this came up with Berlin. I mentioned before that every other week it switches, that is actually not correct fully as one week this was apparently forgotten. Hence this is how often each team was in the 1st spot:
Berlin Fire Salamanders 9 times
Austin Copperheads 3 times
Honolulu Hahalua 3 times
Orange County Otters 3 times
Colorado Yeti 2 times
New Orleans Second Line 2 times
Philadelphia Liberty 2 times
San Jose Sabercats 2 times
Yellowknife Wraiths 2 times
Arizona Outlaws 1 time
Baltimore Hawks 1 time
New York Silverbacks 1 time
Sarasota Sailfish 1 time
Chicago Butchers 0 times
Now as far as I can tell, which team is in this 1st spot each season is not the same, so likely next season another team will get that spot. As far as I am concerned this feels similar to the NFL prime time games. Having one team in the first spot 9 times while another team never gets to play there seems wrong to me personally.
Now let's look at being in that last spot:
Berlin Fire Salamanders 7 times
San Jose Sabercats 6 times
New Orleans Second Line 5 times
Orange County Otters 4 times
Baltimore Hawks 3 times
Honolulu Hahalua 3 times
Chicago Butchers 2 times
Austin Copperheads 1 time
Sarasota Sailfish 1 time
Arizona Outlaws 0 times
Colorado Yeti 0 times
New York Silverbacks 0 times
Philadelphia Liberty 0 times
Yellowknife Wraiths 0 times
Again similar as the first argument, it probably isn't great for one team to have it 7 times and several others 0 times. Moreover, teams like the Sabercats and NOLA don't even get to be first that often comparatively but are last often. Now maybe there is an alternate version of me, a guy on the west coast in the US who prefers being last because he isn't home yet from work when the stream begins. Maybe they prefer being last. But yeah to me, I guess first spot is best also because it is predictable and you know when it actually starts by the minute rather than having to wait and see when you are up.
When I brought up this issue to people who are in the know about how the schedule is made, it was brought up that making a manual schedule would be too difficult. It would take time and it would still never be 100% fair, as we have more weeks than teams. So most teams would be 1st and last one time, but some twice. It's also not necessarily easy to figure out a perfect schedule, I get it takes time. But there are so many jobs in this league, I am not really sure this is really a deterrent. Someone could easily sit down and make a schedule before the season. You really only have to do it once actually and assign each team a number and then fill in the numbers. It's really not that difficult in my eyes. I also don't think it would cause a significant strain to a streamer. Instead of going down the line front or backwards, he would have a pre-written order. Similarly, graphic makers would have the schedule ready before the season even started, so this isn't a genuine problem either.
It's worked in the past and I think it should be something that ought to be changed. It's not a huge issue like I said, but I think just because you can't make something 100% fair, doesn't mean you shouldn't make it more fair than it currently is.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - zaynzk - 06-29-2021
Just Relocate NOLA to AAAANOLA and u will be first all the time
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - Air Crou - 06-29-2021
This problem has been brought up so many times. But is there a solution ever proposed? Sim order or reverse sim order is time efficient for a streamer, been there done that. And as part of the Berlin team, I never had issues with when my team would play. And if 2am start times are a problem, try 3 am start times. But again, I see the problem, I don't see a proposed solution. And there never will be. User experience is key, but time efficiency for whoever is recording and compiling the video is just as key. And again, I am saying it as a former streamer.
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - JuOSu - 06-29-2021
(06-29-2021, 04:09 PM)Air Crou Wrote: This problem has been brought up so many times. But is there a solution ever proposed? Sim order or reverse sim order is time efficient for a streamer, been there done that. And as part of the Berlin team, I never had issues with when my team would play. And if 2am start times are a problem, try 3 am start times. But again, I see the problem, I don't see a proposed solution. And there never will be. User experience is key, but time efficiency for whoever is recording and compiling the video is just as key. And again, I am saying it as a former streamer.
I mean I did propose one: Make a schedule ahead of the season (basically just once) where every team approximately plays in each spot the same amount of times. It's not that hard. You just give the daily list to the streamer and he does that order.
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - Air Crou - 06-29-2021
(06-29-2021, 04:14 PM)JuOSu Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:09 PM)Air Crou Wrote: This problem has been brought up so many times. But is there a solution ever proposed? Sim order or reverse sim order is time efficient for a streamer, been there done that. And as part of the Berlin team, I never had issues with when my team would play. And if 2am start times are a problem, try 3 am start times. But again, I see the problem, I don't see a proposed solution. And there never will be. User experience is key, but time efficiency for whoever is recording and compiling the video is just as key. And again, I am saying it as a former streamer.
I mean I did propose one: Make a schedule ahead of the season (basically just once) where every team approximately plays in each spot the same amount of times. It's not that hard. You just give the daily list to the streamer and he does that order.
Based on what is that schedule made? And what if we need to flex games in the last weeks when there are playoff implications? And where do you flex those games? First or last? There are so many fine points that will require SO. MUCH. EFFORT. And it's basically not worth it. It already takes long enough to record and compile the video. Because the viewers demand 1080p vids.
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - JuOSu - 06-29-2021
(06-29-2021, 05:05 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:14 PM)JuOSu Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:09 PM)Air Crou Wrote: This problem has been brought up so many times. But is there a solution ever proposed? Sim order or reverse sim order is time efficient for a streamer, been there done that. And as part of the Berlin team, I never had issues with when my team would play. And if 2am start times are a problem, try 3 am start times. But again, I see the problem, I don't see a proposed solution. And there never will be. User experience is key, but time efficiency for whoever is recording and compiling the video is just as key. And again, I am saying it as a former streamer.
I mean I did propose one: Make a schedule ahead of the season (basically just once) where every team approximately plays in each spot the same amount of times. It's not that hard. You just give the daily list to the streamer and he does that order.
Based on what is that schedule made? And what if we need to flex games in the last weeks when there are playoff implications? And where do you flex those games? First or last? There are so many fine points that will require SO. MUCH. EFFORT. And it's basically not worth it. It already takes long enough to record and compile the video. Because the viewers demand 1080p vids.
I don't understand the first question. You just take 14 numbers and build the schedule in a way where every team has around the same times in each position of the 7 possible places to play in. The playoff implication is an interesting one, sure. Could just leave it as it is planned or just build the schedule for only 13 weeks to allow flexing in the last week.
I am really not sure what you think is so much effort there. You really only need to do it once because then you can just use it every season with different teams as different numbers. This doesn't in any way make the time to record the video longer lol
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - Air Crou - 06-29-2021
(06-29-2021, 05:08 PM)JuOSu Wrote:The scheduling is already complex enough with each team only having to play four of the seven teams in the opposite division, meaning the teams you play change from season to season. So you'd effectively have to look at each week's schedule separately and move games around, while also checking back to see if you have spread the teams right. Which IS extra effort. And subjective. The current system is objective, following the sim order either from left to right or right to left, and time efficient. I remember answering to this when I was a streamer. I wanted to flex games around like crazy. Recording two or three videos made me realise how pointless it would be. Follow the sim order, don't waste any time, and avoid making mistakes. Especially if you don't have a video editor and have to use the record function of OBS for a whole video instead of recording each game separately and then slap everything together in a video editor.(06-29-2021, 05:05 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:14 PM)JuOSu Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:09 PM)Air Crou Wrote: This problem has been brought up so many times. But is there a solution ever proposed? Sim order or reverse sim order is time efficient for a streamer, been there done that. And as part of the Berlin team, I never had issues with when my team would play. And if 2am start times are a problem, try 3 am start times. But again, I see the problem, I don't see a proposed solution. And there never will be. User experience is key, but time efficiency for whoever is recording and compiling the video is just as key. And again, I am saying it as a former streamer.
I mean I did propose one: Make a schedule ahead of the season (basically just once) where every team approximately plays in each spot the same amount of times. It's not that hard. You just give the daily list to the streamer and he does that order.
Based on what is that schedule made? And what if we need to flex games in the last weeks when there are playoff implications? And where do you flex those games? First or last? There are so many fine points that will require SO. MUCH. EFFORT. And it's basically not worth it. It already takes long enough to record and compile the video. Because the viewers demand 1080p vids.
I don't understand the first question. You just take 14 numbers and build the schedule in a way where every team has around the same times in each position of the 7 possible places to play in. The playoff implication is an interesting one, sure. Could just leave it as it is planned or just build the schedule for only 13 weeks to allow flexing in the last week.
I am really not sure what you think is so much effort there. You really only need to do it once because then you can just use it every season with different teams as different numbers. This doesn't in any way make the time to record the video longer lol
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - JuOSu - 06-29-2021
(06-29-2021, 05:19 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 05:08 PM)JuOSu Wrote:The scheduling is already complex enough with each team only having to play four of the seven teams in the opposite division, meaning the teams you play change from season to season. So you'd effectively have to look at each week's schedule separately and move games around, while also checking back to see if you have spread the teams right. Which IS extra effort. And subjective. The current system is objective, following the sim order either from left to right or right to left, and time efficient. I remember answering to this when I was a streamer. I wanted to flex games around like crazy. Recording two or three videos made me realise how pointless it would be. Follow the sim order, don't waste any time, and avoid making mistakes. Especially if you don't have a video editor and have to use the record function of OBS for a whole video instead of recording each game separately and then slap everything together in a video editor.(06-29-2021, 05:05 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:14 PM)JuOSu Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:09 PM)Air Crou Wrote: This problem has been brought up so many times. But is there a solution ever proposed? Sim order or reverse sim order is time efficient for a streamer, been there done that. And as part of the Berlin team, I never had issues with when my team would play. And if 2am start times are a problem, try 3 am start times. But again, I see the problem, I don't see a proposed solution. And there never will be. User experience is key, but time efficiency for whoever is recording and compiling the video is just as key. And again, I am saying it as a former streamer.
I mean I did propose one: Make a schedule ahead of the season (basically just once) where every team approximately plays in each spot the same amount of times. It's not that hard. You just give the daily list to the streamer and he does that order.
Based on what is that schedule made? And what if we need to flex games in the last weeks when there are playoff implications? And where do you flex those games? First or last? There are so many fine points that will require SO. MUCH. EFFORT. And it's basically not worth it. It already takes long enough to record and compile the video. Because the viewers demand 1080p vids.
I don't understand the first question. You just take 14 numbers and build the schedule in a way where every team has around the same times in each position of the 7 possible places to play in. The playoff implication is an interesting one, sure. Could just leave it as it is planned or just build the schedule for only 13 weeks to allow flexing in the last week.
I am really not sure what you think is so much effort there. You really only need to do it once because then you can just use it every season with different teams as different numbers. This doesn't in any way make the time to record the video longer lol
Alright maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. You don't need to change the schedule itself, just when which game is shown. So making the order is much easier, you don't need to change the schedule itself. It's literally something that can be done within an hour with not a ton of effort and never has to be done again until we expand next. I really don't get the argument that recording things in a different order is complex or different, you just write down the order and then stick to it. It's no different than left to right or right to left.
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - Air Crou - 06-29-2021
(06-29-2021, 05:46 PM)JuOSu Wrote:(06-29-2021, 05:19 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 05:08 PM)JuOSu Wrote:The scheduling is already complex enough with each team only having to play four of the seven teams in the opposite division, meaning the teams you play change from season to season. So you'd effectively have to look at each week's schedule separately and move games around, while also checking back to see if you have spread the teams right. Which IS extra effort. And subjective. The current system is objective, following the sim order either from left to right or right to left, and time efficient. I remember answering to this when I was a streamer. I wanted to flex games around like crazy. Recording two or three videos made me realise how pointless it would be. Follow the sim order, don't waste any time, and avoid making mistakes. Especially if you don't have a video editor and have to use the record function of OBS for a whole video instead of recording each game separately and then slap everything together in a video editor.(06-29-2021, 05:05 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 04:14 PM)JuOSu Wrote: I mean I did propose one: Make a schedule ahead of the season (basically just once) where every team approximately plays in each spot the same amount of times. It's not that hard. You just give the daily list to the streamer and he does that order.
Based on what is that schedule made? And what if we need to flex games in the last weeks when there are playoff implications? And where do you flex those games? First or last? There are so many fine points that will require SO. MUCH. EFFORT. And it's basically not worth it. It already takes long enough to record and compile the video. Because the viewers demand 1080p vids.
I don't understand the first question. You just take 14 numbers and build the schedule in a way where every team has around the same times in each position of the 7 possible places to play in. The playoff implication is an interesting one, sure. Could just leave it as it is planned or just build the schedule for only 13 weeks to allow flexing in the last week.
I am really not sure what you think is so much effort there. You really only need to do it once because then you can just use it every season with different teams as different numbers. This doesn't in any way make the time to record the video longer lol
Alright maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. You don't need to change the schedule itself, just when which game is shown. So making the order is much easier, you don't need to change the schedule itself. It's literally something that can be done within an hour with not a ton of effort and never has to be done again until we expand next. I really don't get the argument that recording things in a different order is complex or different, you just write down the order and then stick to it. It's no different than left to right or right to left.
You speak out of observation, I speak out of actual streaming experience in this league. Left to right or right to left is easy to remember, and as I said, time efficient AND avoids making mistakes like skipping a game. But let's agree to disagree.
RE: Why scheduling in the ISFL should change - JuOSu - 06-29-2021
(06-29-2021, 05:51 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 05:46 PM)JuOSu Wrote:(06-29-2021, 05:19 PM)Air Crou Wrote:(06-29-2021, 05:08 PM)JuOSu Wrote:The scheduling is already complex enough with each team only having to play four of the seven teams in the opposite division, meaning the teams you play change from season to season. So you'd effectively have to look at each week's schedule separately and move games around, while also checking back to see if you have spread the teams right. Which IS extra effort. And subjective. The current system is objective, following the sim order either from left to right or right to left, and time efficient. I remember answering to this when I was a streamer. I wanted to flex games around like crazy. Recording two or three videos made me realise how pointless it would be. Follow the sim order, don't waste any time, and avoid making mistakes. Especially if you don't have a video editor and have to use the record function of OBS for a whole video instead of recording each game separately and then slap everything together in a video editor.(06-29-2021, 05:05 PM)Air Crou Wrote: Based on what is that schedule made? And what if we need to flex games in the last weeks when there are playoff implications? And where do you flex those games? First or last? There are so many fine points that will require SO. MUCH. EFFORT. And it's basically not worth it. It already takes long enough to record and compile the video. Because the viewers demand 1080p vids.
I don't understand the first question. You just take 14 numbers and build the schedule in a way where every team has around the same times in each position of the 7 possible places to play in. The playoff implication is an interesting one, sure. Could just leave it as it is planned or just build the schedule for only 13 weeks to allow flexing in the last week.
I am really not sure what you think is so much effort there. You really only need to do it once because then you can just use it every season with different teams as different numbers. This doesn't in any way make the time to record the video longer lol
Alright maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. You don't need to change the schedule itself, just when which game is shown. So making the order is much easier, you don't need to change the schedule itself. It's literally something that can be done within an hour with not a ton of effort and never has to be done again until we expand next. I really don't get the argument that recording things in a different order is complex or different, you just write down the order and then stick to it. It's no different than left to right or right to left.
You speak out of observation, I speak out of actual streaming experience in this league. Left to right or right to left is easy to remember, and as I said, time efficient AND avoids making mistakes like skipping a game. But let's agree to disagree.
Honestly, if someone can't count to 7 on a piece of paper and strike through the games they have already done then maybe they shouldn't be streamer. Time efficient? How much time does it take to click slightly more left or right?!