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+---- Thread: *The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 (/showthread.php?tid=46963)
*The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - ztarwarz - 08-10-2023
11.101: Negs goes a bit literal on the OFlex, Jake Fencik, OFlex
"The greatest OFlex ever"
Fencik's performances at Wide Receiver over the final 3 seasons of his career are jawdropping; three pro bowls, two 1st team All Pros, and a positional excellency award for a guy who had been playing kicker for the entirety of his career up until then. Due to only playing 3 seasons at WR, none of his volume stats are great, but he did get over 15 yards per reception entirely in the new sim, a mark comparable to very very few. In terms of player identity, he's fine though I'd argue there are other better players at Wide Receiver. The real problem I have with this pick is that Negs really needs to fill out the front 7 at this point in time. Those two factors bump this pick down to a C.
11.102: Mobi messes up, and then goes for recency bias in a way that I think actually works out for him, Regina Ferraro, S
Ferraro's currently in the prime of her career, having just gotten 1st team All Pro safety spots in the last 2 years of her 8 year career so far. And she's put together quite a great pass defending career, too! She's T-9th in Safety picks, and 10th in PDs. That's basically all she has to her name, but that's still a pretty good resume for a position as weak as Safety is at this point. I think there's only a few Safeties better that are still on the board, and Ferraro could surpass them. For a rebound pick after trying to pick someone who he thought was a safety but actually was another CB, Ferraro's amazing. B+ on execution, but in terms of actual pick, I can only give this a D+.
11.103: Simo picks a peak over longevity player who did get high in volume, Cole Maxwell, WR
Maxwell has a WRotY, a couple 1st team All Pros, but only 3 Pro Bowls over his 10 year career. That feels really weird for me considering how great his volume stats are: He's 7th in yards, 9th in touchdowns, and T-8th in receptions for WRs. I guess a lot of it comes from just how dominant his All Pro seasons were: they're 3rd and 20th in receiving yards, and he got over 1500 yards in his other pro bowl season. He has a couple 13 TD seasons too, though I'm inclined to downgrade his S31 touchdown total due to being part of the peak Yeeti; catching 13 of 48 touchdown passes really isn't that impressive in my opinion. Still, at his peak there have been very few WRs on his level, and while part of that comes from being on the Yeeti, I can't call this anything but a good pick. B.
11.104: Frost runs into the same problem that his CBs had, Spike Daniels, S
Daniels, unless I missed something major, played 11 seasons and only made the Pro Bowl 3 times. However, he did make a pair of 1st and 2nd team All Pros, is 5th in Safety picks, and 9th in PDs. 7 defensive TDs has him tied for 4th, and he's also top 30 in sacks for safeties. I think there's a better player still on the board, but it's not like this is a bad pick by any measure. It does, however, make for a pretty weak S1. I don't think I can go higher than a B despite this being very much a position of need as a result.
11.105: Modern Duke picks someone I'm sure Infinite had his eye on, Errol Maddox, WR
"maddox - was pretty proud of this one, felt it was pretty late for a multiple wroty winner"
Maddox played for 11 seasons, only 147 games due to the entirety of his career being in the 13 game season era, and yet still manages to be very high in volume stats along with his pair of WRotYs and his 7 pro bowls. He's 23rd in yards, an amazing 10th in touchdowns, and the cherry on top of his career, is 1st all time in yards per reception. He averaged over 18 yards per reception. That's a mark nobody else can touch, and while that's very much old sim related, there's still less than 100 total seasons in league history where that mark was surpassed out of over 2700. A+ pick here, makes up immensely for the Vinny Valentine slight miscalculation and creates a 1-2 punch that's good enough to be not that big of a downgrade from anyone else, including people who picked both their WRs in the first 5 rounds.
11.106: Infinite picks the only major award winner from the Silverbacks, Ashley Owens, OFlex
"fuck"
"noooooo. Wanted Owens"
Owens is a bad pick for me to be the judge for; he's a workhorse among workhorses, got 5 Pro Bowls and won an OPOY and positional excellency award on the expansion Silverbacks, and is 10th in scrimmage yards and 2nd in all purpose yards all time.
On the other hand, he's well past the danger zone for me in terms of efficiency (3.86, there's a running back all time with more than a yard better per carry, and 9.42 yards per reception isn't bad but it's not good either), is higher up on the attempts chart than he is on either the touchdown or yard charts (17th in yards, 24th in TDs, 11th in attempts), has much better volume but still not the efficiency in receiving (2nd in receptions, 3rd in yards, T-9th in TDs, 34th in Yards per reception), and only crested 4 yards per carry 3 times his entire career. Two of those times were by less than 5/100ths of a yard. Heck, even his OPOY season wasn't all that special, he was only at 3.88 YPC and just managed to be handed the ball a million times. Going over him again, D- as a pick. He's only saved by being from the old sim for all but one year of his career, but suffice to say he's one of those players who I don't think works as anything but a low efficiency longevity option. And he's not even the best of those available at this point in time. At first glance, both Reg Mackworthy and especially Forrest Gump are better at that job than Owens was.
11.107: Rusfan continues to make pick choices I will judge harshly, Quendyn Quarterstorm, CB
Quarterstorm has played for 6 seasons so far. The only award they have gotten was a single 2nd team All Pro at the flex spot. They show up 0 times in the top 50 of any stat for CBs. A few rounds from now, I will end up making a couple mistakes in my drafting that will lead to me having a terrible pair of CBs in terms of this all time draft. They will still BOTH be far better than Quarterstorm, both as a pick and as a player. F. FFFFFFF. What the heck were you thinking, Rus?
11.108: Zayn immediately capitalizes on Rusfan's bad pick, Dermot Lavelle Jr, CB
"While not as good as his dad he is still one of the best CBs ever and is likely one of the Goats at Returning as well
Top 20 in PDs mostly playing in the old sim
Ranked first in most KR/PR stats"
Lavelle Jr. played for a really long time, 13 seasons and 187 games. He played more than the average all time great CB despite playing through the entire 13 game era. He got 7 Pro Bowls and won a CBotY, is 17th in Tackles, T-25th in INTs, and T-19th in PDs. Can't say that Jr appeals to me personally anywhere near as much as his father, or even some later CB picks, he's much more of a longevity pick. However I think there aren't THAT many CBs still on the board who I think are better. B pick.
11.109: Darkness Rising picks a player who I'm not surprised to find out is a Wraith, Cameron Taylor, S
"Needed a Safety and found someone"
Taylor played for 12 seasons and 167 games. He did put together a lot of stats over that time; he's 3rd all time in tackles, 1st in Sacks (the only player with more than Danny Grithead, 3 more sacks in 5 more games), and T-18th in fumble recoveries with 8. There is, however, something missing, and it's something I cannot overlook. It's one thing to be a longevity over peak pick, without a Positional Excellency award or an All Pro to your name. It's quite another for there to be a complete gap in the Pro Bowl line. Unless I'm missing something on the HOF Tracker, Cameron Taylor went to 0 Pro Bowls over his 12 season career. I already value earlier pro bowls less than later ones, as there are less teams and therefore less players competing over spots, and all but one year of Taylor's career was in an 8 team league. But to go to 0 pro bowls? Safety is a weak position all time, but it's not THAT weak. I was already going to judge this one pretty poorly considering who ended up being picked next, but it turns out that Taylor's a lot worse all time than I thought. F pick.
11.110: Let'splay has his best pick of the draft, Jaylon Broxton, S
"Needed a safety, will find someone"
"Safety meanwhile I was alright leaving late and got to pick up two outstanding players who aren't in the Hall; Broxton is 10th in tackles, 22nd in picks, and 5th in PDs among safeties while playing only 126 games; almost everyone else in the top 10 of any of those stats had at minimum 30 more games played if not more."
"I could not believe (D'Attoria) was not in the hall"
"even the guy u just picked Broxton. was kinda shocked the Safety with the most pro bowl nods isnt in the hall"
"Geez, guess I REALLY found diamonds in the rough for my safeties. Thought I might have been rooting my own horn a bit with that description."
We said this and then Broxton went into the Hall next ballot. Really, the best way to show just how much of an outlier Broxton is is to look at who's next up with less games: In tackles, it's the 22nd ranked guy, with picks he only matches a guy in games who's T-9th in picks, in PDs he's 5th and only Schneider compares in terms of low game count, and to top it off he made the pro bowl every year of his career except S9. He played 9 seasons at Safety, being an OL in S6 and switching after that, so he made 8 pro bowls over 9 seasons at Safety. As such, while he never won a DBotY, he's a worthy HOFer and I cannot believe he fell all the way here, past multiple non HOF safeties and people whose careers were nowhere near as good. He is the only pick of mine that I think goes into the A+ category and I don't think there's a question that it's the best value pick out of any safety in this draft.
12.111: Let'splay follows that up with the worst pick of his draft, Johnny Snuggles, CB
"With all the good CBs out of the Hall taken, I had to go in the Hall, and while Snuggles doesn't stand out much he did make it. And I was very late to the CB party, probably a mistake in my drafting strategy. At least he's not the worst HOF CB. Edit: Also, this was partially a lie to maybe help someone overlook Willie Miller, which unfortunately for me didn’t happen."
Snuggles was a strategy pick. He happens to be a strategy pick that didn't work, and was also the wrong strategy pick. Using the advanced draft technique called "lying your ass off" I tried to get people to think that there were no diamonds in the rough in terms of people who were not in the Hall yet, and decided to try and finesse Willie Miller. My draft would have been miles better if I had just picked Willie, but in the end it didn't end up that way; the 2nd to last person who could have even taken a CB before it came back to me picked him up. So Snuggles was in my head the wrong pick. Turns out, he was more the wrong pick than I realized at first. Benson Bayley would have been far superior, with more awards and more stats in less games played, also a HOFer, and is an all around upgrade while still following the facade that I was trying to set up. There's also other people outside the Hall who are arguably better, such as arguably John Canton and Albert Ruschmann, to say nothing of Willie who just flat out is better. I want to give this an F, but I cannot. Because while Snuggles is the wrong pick for sure, he's not chopped liver or anything; he got 5 pro bowls over his 12 year career, is 32nd in picks and T-21st in PDs. I also don't think I can give him an F because for all that I'm kicking myself over this, I think he is actually better than Canton and arguably Ruschmann too. Willie Miller's the big, obvious one though, and for that I'm giving this a D-.
12.112: Darkness Rising picks the first of the TMNTs, Raphael McTurtle, DT
"Still has 2-3 seasons in him if goes the distance, and whilst lacks personal awards, stat case in all time lists is insane. When updated to current stats, it reads
7th in sacks, 2nd in TFL, 11 (about to be 10th) in tackles, T-4th in Safeties (1 behind 1st), now outright 1st in FF and outright 3rd in FR"
McTurtle is a tale of 2 halves of his career, and I'd argue isn't that bad in the personal award department either. He looks worse on the tracker than he is in reality due to it missing his 5th straight Pro Bowl and his 3rd 1st team All pro (he also has two 2nd team All pros) in S41. S42 was the first time since he went to Arizona in S37 that he missed the Pro Bowl and the All Pro teams. Through S42, he's played 10 seasons, is 8th in sacks, 2nd in TFLs, 11th in Tackles, 2nd in FFs, and T-3rd in FRs. Raphael did all this despite an abysmal first 4 seasons of his career where he obtained a total of 13 TFLs and Sacks combined. Since then he's been a powerhouse and undoubtedly one of the best DTs of this generation alongside Christian Marciano and Joseph Reed. Added to Nero Alexander and Big Edd, and Darkness has put together one of the best DLines in the entire group.
12.113: Zayn takes a player that he is surprised isn't in the Hall of Fame, Howard Miller, WR
"5 time pro bowl WR, who also happened to win MVP at WR"
"MVP bc he played CB that year too"
"Ngl this has been a fun exercise in finding guys who should probably be in the Hall
Like Howard Miller won mvp has 5 pro bowls and 2 returners of the year and isn’t in the hall
That feels surprising"
Part of it is that Miller only played for 8 seasons, with his zombie showing up for S15. As such, with a grand total of 112 actual games under his belt, he ends up astoundingly low in volume stats: 49th in yards, and 5 TDs below the tie for 50th in receiving TDs. However, he's T-9th in yards per reception, and has a great award cabinet for how short his career was. It's important to mention that Miller was also the WRotY during his MVP year, in case you might have thought that it was due merely to his play at CB which was great but not outstanding. At this point, Zayn's gotten two really great peak over longevity WRs, and as such kind of makes me want to bump up his grade for the pick above the B+ I'm going to give it due to the synergy. This makes his QB pick later feel like it was part of a strategy rather than merely best QB available.
12.114: Rusfan tries and fails to pick himself, settles on going homer, Albert Ruschmann, CB
"GOAT safety no bias
Oh wait I have 2 already
Oops"
"Lemme guess, he picked himself."
"My first thought when I saw your pick with Edited was that you had misspelled Ruschmann.
Then I come over here and you’re claiming you picked goat safety no bias."
"Also didn’t know Ruschmann was so high on the PD board"
Ruschmann is someone who I am still debating on whether they belong in the Hall or not. On one hand, he played for 11 seasons at CB and only made 3 Pro Bowls. He also only got to 2nd Team All Pro twice, as the 4th and 5th best CB in those two years. So this is a guy without a high peak, or a long peak for that matter. So I am inclined to dislike him. On the other hand, over those years, he got the 2nd most tackles all time, T-20th for picks, 3rd for PDs (and 2nd at the time of the draft), and 2nd for Forced Fumbles. I think Ruschamann ends up being one of the worst CBs picked all draft, though that's partly because he's 16th of 20 to be picked. Still, I think that at bare minimum 2 of the 4 remaining CBs to be picked, Benson Bayley and Willie Miller, are definitely better than Ruschmann. I think this is technically as bad of a pick as Snuggles was (arguably worse since I think Ruschmann is worse), though I'm less angry about it because Snuggles was mine. Same grade as mine, D-.
12.115: Infinite picks another Old Sim player who went under the radar a bit, James Bishop, WR
Bishop played for a while, 12 seasons and 163 games, and made a modest 5 pro bowls. He's most notable for an S15 season where he won OPOY and WRotY due to putting up a 1369 yard, 13 TD statline over 14 games. It's not an outstanding peak or anything; plenty of other players have at least one if not multiple seasons where they outpace those on a per game basis, but those people all went much earlier. Bishop also has a decent chunk of volume to his name; he's 16th in yards, 27th in receiving touchdowns, and is top 20 in yards per reception at 16.4. That being said, there's a certain player who I think is his superior at the position still on the board; Saba Donut had more great seasons and less bad ones, and even has comparable volume in less games, even counting his seasons as WR4. As such I think I'm going with a C grade for this one, Infinite got a bit too cute in my book.
12.116: Modern Duke picks the best S1 RB, Reg Mackworthy, RB
"Had to go for more early outlaws. Still career top 5 yards for an S1 player"
"mackworthy - still needed RB2 and after this felt most choices were more recent guys/still building their resumes"
"Holy shit no one took reg yet?"
"There's a LOT of good RBs.
though tbh I'd have drafted Reg over (Busch Goose) specifically."
Mackworthy played for 11 seasons, won an RBotY and went to 6 Pro Bowls, and despite that actually only being 154 games, is still very high up on the volume charts. He has the 5th most rushing yards, the 15th most rushing touchdowns, the 3rd most attempts, and is even 36th in receiving yards at 9.1 yards per reception. Looking more closely reveals one problem with his resume, as well as one mitigating factor. The problem is that his efficiency is awful. 3.84 yards per carry is I believe the worst in the entire draft. However, there are 2 mitigating factors; first off, the early days of the ISFL are some of the worst in league history; his S2 season where he ran for 3.3 yards per carry is below average, sure, but no RB1 got over 3.7. And once Mackworthy got out of the earliest days of the ISFL he was actually pretty efficient, both overall and especially for the time. From S6 onwards, he only fell below 4 ypc once, getting 3.91. So even though he's the lowest in terms of yards per carry, I think I'd argue that he's actually more efficient than Ashley Owens at the very least. That being said, he's not an efficiency powerhouse even at his best and is going to receive a bump down in my head due to that. C- for me, at least having Brown makes it so that only one of his RBs is a low efficiency ground and pound guy.
12.117: Frost picks a guy who I crapped on a ton in the discord at the time, Forrest Gump, RB
"Ngl, Idk how he wasn’t taken yet."
"because i dont think he was all that special"
"I was gonna take McCormick as my flex at first but then I saw a 7x pro bowler with an OPOTY was available"
"still a good pick
but i think being like the 15th rb (at least by searchign rb in channel) is about right"
"congrats on picking literally just Frank Gore
actually I take it back, Gore was a LOT better"
Then me and Frost got into a big argument about how good Gore was and about whether or not Forrest Gump was better than him. I still stand by Gore being much better, but Gump as a pick isn't bad at this spot.
To be more specific, over 12 seasons (two of which were as RB2), Gump is 10th in yards, T-25th in touchdowns, 10th in carries, 25th in receiving yards, 17th in receiving touchdowns, and 20th in receptions. Forrest also won an OPOY, an RBotY, and went to 7 pro bowls over 10 full seasons of play. I personally have Gump as the best of the "run forever" guys of the old sim, which kind of fits with his actual movie character, really. The pick grades out as A for me, he's the best RB taken since Cobra Kai in my estimation and Kai was pick 90, almost 30 picks ago. There's arguably one or two active players who Frost could have picked instead, but Forrest Gump wasn't anything but a home run of a pick. Being not as good as Frank Gore was in the NFL doesn't change that.
12.118: Simo (with assistance from Modern Duke) picks the last position that was completely without picks up until now, Kulture Fulture, K
"17 more koty awards than anyone else and #1 in punter awards too. Tied first with one other but still first."
"He was my top kicker but there was a lot who ere close"
"i had like 7 kickers on my list instantly
haven't sorted it, but actually kinda deep"
"Future had like 6 KotY right"
"in a row or something"
"And was statistically better than the big 3.
He didn’t have much competition at the time but he was still the best"
"ye I know of no one from that era of kicking besides them"
"Well we don’t know anyone since they all lost awards to future"
I think we talked about this kicker pick more than almost anyone else. And it turns out that we were misspelling his name the whole time because he's not Kulture Future, he's Kulture Fulture. 11 seasons played, 6 straight KotY, 3 PotY, and 8 times a Pro Bowler, Future (who I will probably not stop calling future because I'm too used to it) has even more positional excellency awards per season played than Paul DiMirio. He made 96.9% of his extra points and 92.2% of his field goals. That second mark is 3rd all time, only behind Micycle McCormick, who did not play his declining years at Kicker, and Alex Dasistwirklichseinnachname, who had nowhere near his level of awards. This is because no kicker does, no kicker even comes close. Future is almost indisputably the best kicker ever, there is just one problem with this pick, and I bet you can guess what it is.
To explain my problems with this pick, I'm going to travel to the future of this draft and talk about a different player: Dean Jackson. Dean Jackson isn't Future, but he's at least decently close. He has 1 KotY and 4 PotY, as well as 8 pro bowls over 11 seasons. He made 96.3% of his extra points and 91% of his field goals. He also has the 9th highest yards per punt ever, much better than Future, albeit at a slightly lower In20% than Future. He's not as good as Future, but the difference between them is the difference from a 9/10 to a 10/10 at most. Dean Jackson was the last kicker taken in the draft and was the 4th to last pick overall. Similarly to how Bruce Buckley and Stumpy Jones got F or near F for jumping the gun on OL, this pick gets a D- for jumping the gun on Kickers.
12.119: Mobi continues the tradition of picking TEs I think are better than Heath Evans, Lucius Salem, TE
Salem has shot up boards over the last 2 seasons and as far as I can tell is easily on track to make the Hall. Salem is 7th in receiving yards among TEs, 5th in touchdowns, and 7th in yards per reception at 10.7; he's also amassed 6 Pro Bowls and 4 1st team All Pros over his 8 year career so far. Salem's also T-4th in pancakes for a TE, at 404, with only 5 sacks allowed. I'd say that when I first got the idea for this article, Salem was arguably around McCormick level, but by the time he was drafted, on his way to a 4th straight 1st team All Pro and a 5th straight Pro Bowl, Salem deserved to go even higher than he did, above Penne at the very least. A+ pick.
12.120: Negs picks the first of 2 LBs, only one of which I'm covering due to the format, Rumble Ronson, LB
Ronson is the better of Negs' 2 picks, and might still be getting an F on this one. Ronson has played for 9 seasons, but only has one season of note not counting the year he won DRotY. He was a 1st team All Pro and shared the spoils with fellow butcher Joseph Reed for the S40 DPOY. He also went to the pro bowl that season.
That's it. That's all his awards. How about volume stats? Well, he's 47th in tackles, T-37th in sacks, an actually great 4th in TFLs, 22nd in FFs, and 23rd in FRs. Basically his entire pick and his entire career rests upon having the 16th most TFLs at any position in league history. That and a peak year that is, to be fair, amazing, with 7 forced fumbles and 30 combined sacks and TFLs in S40. Out of respect for that peak season, he's getting a D+ as a pick, but no better than that. I'd argue that the next LB picked after this pair is better than both Ronson and Negs' next pick combined, though to be fair we are kind of getting into the weeds with LBs at this point.
RE: The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - zaynzk - 08-10-2023
Fun Fact, Jaylon Broxton was only re nominated for the Hall due to this project
im glad 70 year old Broxton can enjoy the Hall now
RE: The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - Frostbite - 08-10-2023
If you only look at my offense I have the best team in the draft! Just uh, dont look at the other side of the ball
RE: The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - ztarwarz - 08-10-2023
(08-10-2023, 01:45 PM)zaynzk Wrote: Fun Fact, Jaylon Broxton was only re nominated for the Hall due to this projectDid you renominate him, out of curiosity? Or was it someone else in the group?
im glad 70 year old Broxton can enjoy the Hall now
RE: The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - ztarwarz - 08-10-2023
(08-10-2023, 01:51 PM)Frostbite Wrote: If you only look at my offense I have the best team in the draft! Just uh, dont look at the other side of the ballHonestly, it was hilarious that we got into such an argument about a pick I didn't even disagree with at the time. I just wanted to call Gump the ISFL's Frank Gore and then things spiraled from there
RE: The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - zaynzk - 08-10-2023
(08-10-2023, 01:51 PM)ztarwarz Wrote:Ye I did lol(08-10-2023, 01:45 PM)zaynzk Wrote: Fun Fact, Jaylon Broxton was only re nominated for the Hall due to this projectDid you renominate him, out of curiosity? Or was it someone else in the group?
im glad 70 year old Broxton can enjoy the Hall now
RE: The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - speculadora - 08-10-2023
(08-10-2023, 06:20 PM)zaynzk Wrote:(08-10-2023, 01:51 PM)ztarwarz Wrote:Ye I did lol(08-10-2023, 01:45 PM)zaynzk Wrote: Fun Fact, Jaylon Broxton was only re nominated for the Hall due to this projectDid you renominate him, out of curiosity? Or was it someone else in the group?
im glad 70 year old Broxton can enjoy the Hall now
my hero. also,
Quote:We said this and then Broxton went into the Hall next ballot. Really, the best way to show just how much of an outlier Broxton is is to look at who's next up with less games: In tackles, it's the 22nd ranked guy, with picks he only matches a guy in games who's T-9th in picks, in PDs he's 5th and only Schneider compares in terms of low game count, and to top it off he made the pro bowl every year of his career except S9. He played 9 seasons at Safety, being an OL in S6 and switching after that, so he made 8 pro bowls over 9 seasons at Safety. As such, while he never won a DBotY, he's a worthy HOFer and I cannot believe he fell all the way here, past multiple non HOF safeties and people whose careers were nowhere near as good. He is the only pick of mine that I think goes into the A+ category and I don't think there's a question that it's the best value pick out of any safety in this draft.
I may be misremembering but I could have sworn I won some positional award as a DB. More important than that, though, is that I was actually originally a tight end named Poopyface Tomatonose and I would have to assume that I am the only defensive player in the hall of fame with an offensive rookie of the year award.
Edit: It was a returner of the year. Boring!
RE: *The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - Baron1898 - 08-11-2023
Fulture is very far from being "almost indisputably the best kicker ever". That volume of awards comes with the massive caveat that he had literally no competition for a good few of them – the prime of his career came squarely after the Turkleton/Jackson/McCormick era and before the Alex D./Powers/etc. kicker renaissance. Outstanding? Yeah. Top 5 or 3? Probably. But there is plenty of room for dispute.
RE: *The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - infinitempg - 08-12-2023
(08-11-2023, 10:31 PM)Baron1898 Wrote: Fulture is very far from being "almost indisputably the best kicker ever". That volume of awards comes with the massive caveat that he had literally no competition for a good few of them – the prime of his career came squarely after the Turkleton/Jackson/McCormick era and before the Alex D./Powers/etc. kicker renaissance. Outstanding? Yeah. Top 5 or 3? Probably. But there is plenty of room for dispute.
am i gonna have to dust off the old "the specialist" logo to look into this
RE: *The All Time Draft, Rounds 11 and 12 - manicmav36 - 08-18-2023
When Snuggles was inducted into the Hall of Fame he was second all-time in PDs and widely regarded as the second best CB of all-time. The new sim absolutely broke PD numbers though, so now his numbers look pedestrian in comparison. Just another example of old sime versus new sim players.