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+---- Thread: *Player Progression: Player Tags (/showthread.php?tid=49781)
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*Player Progression: Player Tags - lemonoppy - 02-20-2024
I’ve had this idea bouncing around in my head after soevil posted a media with suggestions on how to improve the ISFL experience, something that stuck in my head was “But what can we do to make our players really feel different than the last great Speed Receiver or Pocket Passing QB?”.
Soevil brings up the great point that after we make our characters, there’s very little customization/personalization that lets you feel like your RP as a character is “alive” or dynamic. There are generally 3 or maybe 4 major events in your character’s career, and most of them happen right after you create.
The major events in a player’s career, in my opinion, are: Character Creation, DSFL Draft, ISFL Draft, Post-Rookie Contract Extension + possible extension after that, although post Rookie Contract FA is super rare. It would be amazing if we could increase the number of points you get differentiation or moments of excitement.
In the ISFL, we have a very steady level of character progression. You gain TPE at a pretty gradual level throughout your career, with little spikes of TPE dopamine at the end/start of a season as seasonal predictions/first rounders/off-season tasks come in. An ISFL player will maybe bump a stat by two or three every update, and then wait for the off-season to get enough TPE for a big boost or maybe to unlock a trait, especially when you’re a DSFL capped player, that rush of unlocking all that banked TPE is among the most fun times you’ll have.
In my original draft of this, I compared ISFL characters to D&D classes, building out a “progression path” that was closer to Pathfinder than D&D 5e, a game where you get a feat at every level, which alternates between General/Skill/Class/Heritage feats as you level. We even have a great analogue for levels in TPE to bracket and create levels!
I think, however, the discussion is closer to something like Slay the Spire, FTL, or other rogue-likes.
In Slay the Spire, you go up a series of floors, facing different opponents or events, usually adding a card to your deck at each floor, gradually upgrading and creating a deck that is cohesive. Every so often, and after bosses, you get Relics, which are permanent items that change something drastic about your character, maybe you gain more potion slots or maybe all the cards you draw have their mana cost randomized! In Slay the Spire, you get steady improvements but also large spikes that drastically alter the way you play.
This is what I think we’re missing with our character progression in the ISFL. We have that steady progression, every update you might bump up your stats by two or three points, but after those big off-season updates, that +30 TPE from max seasonal equipment, you just…. Do more of the same.
Now, it’s easy to say stuff like “the game design of sim leagues isn’t super dynamic” but making these kinds of systems is HARD. Especially if we’re generally kneecapped with the sim engines being opaque and maybe breakable.
So, let me try and give it a try! My bonafides are that I used to play a lot of D&D with BMP and a few thousand hours (a third of Tuba’s Civ time) in large scale D&D servers had us coming into contact with similar problems as I see here. So basically, just baseless suggestions that I think would be fun!
Firstly, are these tuned suggestions? No, they’re not but they’re kinda in the ballpark of reasonable.
Secondly, what happens if we find a meta build? This is much more common, people copy stuff that works and with sim testing we can find stuff like this quicker at the cost of some sanity. I think at the end of the day, we already have disagreements on stuff like “Is a (blocking) TE any good?” or “how do we find a max earning FB for our strats” so there’s a lot of space to work in.
ISFL Player Progression + Player Tags
Firstly, character creation is pretty good! We get to pick from one of 10 classes, one of each position group. In these position groups we even have archetypes, which is also great, we’ve got subclasses!
In my ideal world, we start characters at level 1 (50 TPE) with a position and then give people the opportunity to pick an archetype at level 2, but with the short turnaround time from Creation -> DSFL -> ISFL, I don’t think it’s wise and getting into the ISFL is difficult already, adding more options like archetypes while people are getting used to it seems unwise.
Players level up at TPE benchmarks, unlocking player tags at each level so that they can customize their character and feel more involvement. You only gain the level once, no double-dipping as you regress!
Level 1 - Freshman: Character Creation
Nothing much changes here, you start with your 50 TPE and pick your position and archetype.Level 2 - College Starter: 150 TPE
You’ve gotten the hang of updating, doing ACs, and buying equipment! Let's level up and give you a small bonus, in the form of player tags!The level 2 tags are meant to be small trinkets on your character, changing them slightly but in out-of-sim ways to encourage getting into more of the surrounding parts of the ISFL.
Media Darling - The media loves your energy at team press conferences, your next Presser is at full payout rate.
Fashion Icon - Fans on Instagram can’t wait to see what you wear next on the way to the game, your next Graphics post is bumped up 1 grade.
Locker Room Leader - Win or lose, you pump up the locker room and get everyone involved. Your next DSFL Discord activity payment is doubled.
Team Correspondent - Whether in the film room or in the team group chat, you’re involved. Your next media piece has a one million bonus.
Level 3 - Role Player: 500 TPE
Level 3 is at 500 TPE because it’s coming off the heels of being drafted to the ISFL, you’ve had a lot going on so far, so the 500 TPE mark should happen around your third character season. I don’t want to attach a lot of stuff here, but we should reward people for hitting 500 TPE, which is a pretty reasonable mark for a player.
I think at this point, introducing some player tags that give some in-sim advantage is pretty good, although, we’re going to wait for the really interesting tags later on.
Example Level 3 Tags
5 Star Recruit - You’ve shined at every level you’ve played at, and the DSFL is no exception. Your DSFL TPE cap is increased by 25.
Early Star - You’ve put in the time and work and can hang with the crowd in the ISFL, you gain 5 TPE.
Regional Sponsorship - The media noticed you and booked you for a regional ad campaign. Your first two levels of character equipment are free for the next season.
Quick Study - The lights in the film room are always on, your player experience is increased one step.
Level 4 - First-Team Starter: 800 TPE
The penultimate level! Rewarding people as they’re about to sign some big contracts. When we get to this level of TPE, I think we should be rewarding these players with some medium perks and some more exciting ones as people hit max later. This tier should get fleshed out more for sure!
Never too Late - It’s never too late to change your fate. You gain a free Position or Archetype Swap in addition to the one you may have used.
Late Bloomer - You’ve worked hard to get yourself to this level and you’ve gotten into the pro groove. You gain 15 TPE. Not available to Early Stars
National Sponsorship - People love your ads and social media presence, the first four levels of your next Equipment are free for the next season.
Rising Stars Series - You’re a rising star in the league, and you’ve been noticed by Dotts! Get a Dotts card added to the Rising Stars series.
Level 5 - ISFL All-Star: 1200 TPE
Now, this is the deranged takes level. If you get to 1200 TPE, you’re a max super-user and I think we can get pretty fun with it. I also know that these aren’t going to be balanced but could be with tweaking? I don’t test so I don’t know if these are broken broken.Positionless Football - Where do you play? Wherever you feel like will make the most impact. You can be placed at any position in the depth charts.
Specialized - Your dedication to your favourite drills shows, you can increase the cap of a stat by 5.
Delaying the Reaper - You can’t put off Old Man Time forever, but with good work and effort, maybe you can push it back. Your regression percentages are decreased by 10%.
The Decision - You’ve been a star for the team that drafted you, but it’s time to make a move. If you change teams in the off-season, gain 50 TPE.
Face of the League - Who do they show in pre-game promos? You! And accordingly, you get a card in the Dotts Face of the League series!
All in all, I think adding this kind of player progression will be more fun for users. You get more excitement when you earn, you can differentiate yourself with some more customizable perks, and maybe the league gets a little wilder.
I think that there really does need to be something to add in for later TPE levels, something to alleviate the grind of just doing your tasks and updates for 6 seasons before you retire, and maybe this might not be it, but hopefully we could find something that works.
If you’ve got any player tag thoughts or suggestions, I would love to hear them!
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - OrbitingDeath - 02-20-2024
Mongo is appalled!
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - 37thchamber - 02-20-2024
would need a lot of work to balance them, but I get the idea and think it's worth exploring
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - soevil - 02-20-2024
This is awesome! I love that you took the time and effort to write up something more fleshed out than what I could come up with. I know for sure that some people will take issue with the TPE rewards (*cough @Baron1898 *cough*), but I hope that we can keep an open mind and consider in what ways we can make this idea work!
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - oknom - 02-20-2024
super cool ideas! It does feel like it flows great with the lower level tags being small impacts, and the later ones being more fun as a reward for being active long term. Personally, I like that this can bolster other areas of the site like trading cards, graphics, and media.
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - firstfray - 02-20-2024
The lower level tags are fun, unique and relatively small impact. The high level tags tho.... most people will probably end up taking the increase an attribute cap by 5 and throw it on speed. And I know in DDSPF16 there was some wonkiness with players playing OOP. Not sure if there's anything to a similar degree with DDSPF21 but the out of position tag might lead to some game breaking players
All around, I think these are great and fun ideas! Would be hard to implement some (especially the sim related one) due to how the backend works though.
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - electrictree - 02-20-2024
Really like the concept! Tiers are set out well and would add some variety to the game. Slay the spire is also a banger of a game so shout out for that
Maybe the only suggestion I’d throw out there is career specific tags instead of only TPE tags. So if a player plays on three teams he gets a ‘mercenary’ tag or whatever
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - soevil - 02-20-2024
(02-20-2024, 11:08 AM)firstfray Wrote: The lower level tags are fun, unique and relatively small impact. The high level tags tho.... most people will probably end up taking the increase an attribute cap by 5 and throw it on speed. And I know in DDSPF16 there was some wonkiness with players playing OOP. Not sure if there's anything to a similar degree with DDSPF21 but the out of position tag might lead to some game breaking playersI think its important to remember that these are just ideas that can continually be improved upon. I also think a +5 to the cap is too much, but is +1? or even +2?
All around, I think these are great and fun ideas! Would be hard to implement some (especially the sim related one) due to how the backend works though.
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - ForSucksFake - 02-20-2024
He said I’m a start
RE: Player Progression: Player Tags - MikeWhiskey - 02-20-2024
Good ideas, in MY ISFL media forum?!