Comfirmation of Arizona Multis

[Bzerkap]

One would think that Er's multis #1, 2, and 3 would be enough history that multi #7 earns more than a 1 season ban.

I mean it’s not really history as I view it. The way I see history is an action taken and punished for and then a completely separate action taken and then again punished for, creating a history of wrongdoing. Or it could be the same action taking place across discrete time periods, but all of these happened concurrently, so it is hard for me to argue a history. Every single multi was created prior to the season 2 draft and continued on past that

[RedCydranth]

I really can't wrap my head around this punishment.

If I rob a store with a gun, I get charged with Armed Robbery. One count.
If I rob 7 stores with a gun, I don't get charged with one count of Armed Robbery, I get charged with seven. This is how punishment works. You get punished for EACH instance of a crime. I say he gets banned for seven seasons.

Add in the amount of TPE each of those multis had, and you're looking at over a thousand fake TPE spread across those accounts. If we threw Noble under a bus and banned him for life for 70 TPE, what the literal fuck are we supposed to do with over a thousand TPE? A one season ban sounds about right.......................................

Remember Carmel Gibson, that Tight End that the Hawks had who was mistakenly given extra TPE? How much outrage was thrown over that? Baltimore was called all sorts of names and dragged through the mud over that, and it was a simple mistake. This is SEVEN players, all who should never have existed. Seven players who were very much involved in their teams game plans. Now let's look at the direct effect of Tim Pest. If he never existed, that Outlaws offensive line, even if you put in a different player, is MUCH weaker. Season 3 he had 0 sacks against him. This past season he had a grand total of 1. Both seasons he led the league in Pancakes. Just from thus one Multi, every defensive lineman's stats who went up against Pest is now slightly less. Sacks that could have stopped drives would have happened. Those drives could have changed games, and all it takes is one game different for the entire playoff picture to be completely different, especially in the NSFC. But, yeah, 1 season is all we should give him.

Let's also look at the other possible damage he did to this league. How many of those players helped the Outlaws win? Not just win, but win dominantly. As an Otter, it always seemed suspicious that, although timeconsumer ran sims with the league file, and it came out 50-50 that we'd win at home, that we ALWAYS lost. If the man is capable of pulling the wool over our eyes over 7 multis for 8 months now, is it really out of the realm of possibility he was able to synthesise a way to rig the sims and make it seem like it was legit all along? I'm not savvy with the sim, but is there a possibility that he fudged numbers in his own personal file when he ran the sim, and claimed he used the official files every time? I know it's hard to get any proof on this, but we relied SOLELY on him for our simming of games for 3 seasons. And conveniently the season we relinquish his simming ability, the Outlaws seemed flawed and failed to win in the playoffs.

The longer I stick around this league, the more I see how big of a joke it is. I stay because I love my Otters. I stay because I know that there's a LOT of good people on other teams here who see that this league can be the most fun thing they do in their day. But it's getting progressively harder to have that sort of fun when all of these cheaters are coming to light and the response is nowhere near what it should be. We just had an entire team quit because of their disapproval with how this league is ran. While I don't agree with their actions, I at least sympathize with their reasoning. If you don't take a hard stance on cheating, especially cheating which has fucked up this league since quite possibly season 1, you're perpetuating the reasons for so many people's disdain with this league. You're sending a message that you're soft.

I believe in redemption too. But there's some actions that you can't be redeemed from. Basically putting an asterisk on the entire first 4 seasons of this league falls under that. If Noble gets kicked out for 2 strikes, Er gets the boot after 7.

[RavensFanFromOntario]

I doubt ER's going to want to return. Hard to make a comeback from this.

[JuOSu]

I really can't wrap my head around this punishment.

If I rob a store with a gun, I get charged with Armed Robbery. One count.
If I rob 7 stores with a gun, I don't get charged with one count of Armed Robbery, I get charged with seven. This is how punishment works. You get punished for EACH instance of a crime. I say he gets banned for seven seasons.

Add in the amount of TPE each of those multis had, and you're looking at over a thousand fake TPE spread across those accounts. If we threw Noble under a bus and banned him for life for 70 TPE, what the literal fuck are we supposed to do with over a thousand TPE? A one season ban sounds about right.......................................

Remember Carmel Gibson, that Tight End that the Hawks had who was mistakenly given extra TPE? How much outrage was thrown over that? Baltimore was called all sorts of names and dragged through the mud over that, and it was a simple mistake. This is SEVEN players, all who should never have existed. Seven players who were very much involved in their teams game plans. Now let's look at the direct effect of Tim Pest. If he never existed, that Outlaws offensive line, even if you put in a different player, is MUCH weaker. Season 3 he had 0 sacks against him. This past season he had a grand total of 1. Both seasons he led the league in Pancakes. Just from thus one Multi, every defensive lineman's stats who went up against Pest is now slightly less. Sacks that could have stopped drives would have happened. Those drives could have changed games, and all it takes is one game different for the entire playoff picture to be completely different, especially in the NSFC. But, yeah, 1 season is all we should give him.

Let's also look at the other possible damage he did to this league. How many of those players helped the Outlaws win? Not just win, but win dominantly. As an Otter, it always seemed suspicious that, although timeconsumer ran sims with the league file, and it came out 50-50 that we'd win at home, that we ALWAYS lost. If the man is capable of pulling the wool over our eyes over 7 multis for 8 months now, is it really out of the realm of possibility he was able to synthesise a way to rig the sims and make it seem like it was legit all along? I'm not savvy with the sim, but is there a possibility that he fudged numbers in his own personal file when he ran the sim, and claimed he used the official files every time? I know it's hard to get any proof on this, but we relied SOLELY on him for our simming of games for 3 seasons. And conveniently the season we relinquish his simming ability, the Outlaws seemed flawed and failed to win in the playoffs.

The longer I stick around this league, the more I see how big of a joke it is. I stay because I love my Otters. I stay because I know that there's a LOT of good people on other teams here who see that this league can be the most fun thing they do in their day. But it's getting progressively harder to have that sort of fun when all of these cheaters are coming to light and the response is nowhere near what it should be. We just had an entire team quit because of their disapproval with how this league is ran. While I don't agree with their actions, I at least sympathize with their reasoning. If you don't take a hard stance on cheating, especially cheating which has fucked up this league since quite possibly season 1, you're perpetuating the reasons for so many people's disdain with this league. You're sending a message that you're soft.

I believe in redemption too. But there's some actions that you can't be redeemed from. Basically putting an asterisk on the entire first 4 seasons of this league falls under that. If Noble gets kicked out for 2 strikes, Er gets the boot after 7.

This x1000

It's a ridiculous punishment for someone who destroyed the entire history of this league up to this point. What a joke.

[ADwyer87]

I think we need to ban Dermot to bring the severity of the punishment in line with the infraction.

This man understands

[ADwyer87]

I am actually not so shocked by this. Many MANY people here have players in NSFL, SBA, SHL, GOMHL, PBE, and whatever other leagues im forgetting. And somehow most people are fine with that. If you only focused on this league, you could probably do 5 players too. Especially cause then it is probably easier to keep track of everything since you are doing the same thing over and over.

ok, but get this, he had a player in SHL, a player in GOMHL, and like 7 players in NSFL. Thats insane

[ADwyer87]

How complicit was team management during this time: 1. You allowed someone to have all these multis or 2. You lack awareness of your own team to realize it. I have my suspicions.

L
M
A
O

1. "You allowed someone to have all these multis"

uhhh, no

2. "You lack awareness of your own team to realize it"

uhhh, NO ONE fucking realized it until S4? I can give you tons of PMs that would make it easy to think that these guys weren't the same person. plenty of board messages as well that make this.

Not to mention that Er WAS part of team management so its easy for him to say things like "I PM'ed Luechly, he's really good" and why would we question it?

Almost all of this proof is from IP addresses, mod logs, deleted posts, email addresses, and PMs. Where is the part that we find out about the multis exactly?

[Yurt6]

I really can't wrap my head around this punishment.

If I rob a store with a gun, I get charged with Armed Robbery. One count.
If I rob 7 stores with a gun, I don't get charged with one count of Armed Robbery, I get charged with seven. This is how punishment works. You get punished for EACH instance of a crime. I say he gets banned for seven seasons.

Add in the amount of TPE each of those multis had, and you're looking at over a thousand fake TPE spread across those accounts. If we threw Noble under a bus and banned him for life for 70 TPE, what the literal fuck are we supposed to do with over a thousand TPE? A one season ban sounds about right.......................................

Remember Carmel Gibson, that Tight End that the Hawks had who was mistakenly given extra TPE? How much outrage was thrown over that? Baltimore was called all sorts of names and dragged through the mud over that, and it was a simple mistake. This is SEVEN players, all who should never have existed. Seven players who were very much involved in their teams game plans. Now let's look at the direct effect of Tim Pest. If he never existed, that Outlaws offensive line, even if you put in a different player, is MUCH weaker. Season 3 he had 0 sacks against him. This past season he had a grand total of 1. Both seasons he led the league in Pancakes. Just from thus one Multi, every defensive lineman's stats who went up against Pest is now slightly less. Sacks that could have stopped drives would have happened. Those drives could have changed games, and all it takes is one game different for the entire playoff picture to be completely different, especially in the NSFC. But, yeah, 1 season is all we should give him.

Let's also look at the other possible damage he did to this league. How many of those players helped the Outlaws win? Not just win, but win dominantly. As an Otter, it always seemed suspicious that, although timeconsumer ran sims with the league file, and it came out 50-50 that we'd win at home, that we ALWAYS lost. If the man is capable of pulling the wool over our eyes over 7 multis for 8 months now, is it really out of the realm of possibility he was able to synthesise a way to rig the sims and make it seem like it was legit all along? I'm not savvy with the sim, but is there a possibility that he fudged numbers in his own personal file when he ran the sim, and claimed he used the official files every time? I know it's hard to get any proof on this, but we relied SOLELY on him for our simming of games for 3 seasons. And conveniently the season we relinquish his simming ability, the Outlaws seemed flawed and failed to win in the playoffs.

The longer I stick around this league, the more I see how big of a joke it is. I stay because I love my Otters. I stay because I know that there's a LOT of good people on other teams here who see that this league can be the most fun thing they do in their day. But it's getting progressively harder to have that sort of fun when all of these cheaters are coming to light and the response is nowhere near what it should be. We just had an entire team quit because of their disapproval with how this league is ran. While I don't agree with their actions, I at least sympathize with their reasoning. If you don't take a hard stance on cheating, especially cheating which has fucked up this league since quite possibly season 1, you're perpetuating the reasons for so many people's disdain with this league. You're sending a message that you're soft.

I believe in redemption too. But there's some actions that you can't be redeemed from. Basically putting an asterisk on the entire first 4 seasons of this league falls under that. If Noble gets kicked out for 2 strikes, Er gets the boot after 7.

bump