(02-19-2024, 01:00 PM)g2019 Wrote: It's been 16 pages of talking in circles, can we stop addressing the matter at hand and strictly pasta at this point?
(02-19-2024, 03:48 PM)JJ5 Wrote: I've seen a common sentiment regarding KCC reporting their own mistake, and how that plays a role and why are we punishing GMs for reporting their own mistakes, right? Norfolk noticed this error as well immediately so I don't think the reporting really makes a difference, especially considering it was done AFTER the games themselves were simmed, but before they were streamed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The reporting matters because it demonstrates the lack of malicious intent you are totally not accusing anyone of. If a team was trying to cheat to eke out an extra win, they would let things run as usual and hope that nobody notices or say "oopsie" when called out after the fact. Notifying the league prior to games being aired is obviously done with the intention of giving HO the opportunity to decide to re-sim the game or take other proactive action. It's not KCC's fault that HO decided to move forward with the stream rather than delaying the stream and re-simming.
(02-19-2024, 03:48 PM)JJ5 Wrote: If in the future, as a GM, my star QB gets called up midseason, and I can game the system and leave him in for another game and only get hit with a $1M fine, I am leaving him in every single time. Maybe I have no competitive integrity, or maybe I just really want to win. You can judge me all you want for that, but I seriously think there needs to be a steeper deterrence to this type of action. I'm not claiming it was malicious or intentional. We're all volunteers and humans here, agreeing to run sim football teams for the enjoyment of others, getting paid in fake money. Mistakes happen. Regardless of intent, I still believe there needs to be some form of deterrence so that GMs in the future don't think they can get away with this type of action. Again, I'm not trying to say KCC maliciously submitted incorrect DCs. I just think that the precedent needs to be set so that if a midseason call up happens like this, the GMs in the future now have a tougher decision to make. Trading a win for $1M? I think all of us would make that decision, and especially GMs, given that they earn a lot too. But trading a win for a draft pick and $1M? That's a harder choice.
This is a pretty cynical viewpoint and one that IMO goes against the spirit of this league. We've seen people in positions of power abuse that power in the past, so I'm not saying it can't or won't ever happen, but running a casual online dot football league with such a cynical view of people will only serve to dampen everyone's fun and enthusiasm. Punishing every minor accident harshly because theoretically someone could decide the proportionate punishment is worth cheating assumes the worst about our userbase. If we see a sudden rash of GMs abusing depth charts, then sure thing, rachet up the punishment, but until then, creating a worse experience in the name of some nebulous deterrence is asinine. Also, fines like this have been SOP for literal years - if GMs were going to constantly conduct the self-serving cost-benefit analysis of cheating that you describe, we'd certainly have seen it pop up more often. A $1M fine here doesn't set any new precedent that would make GMs more likely to cheat in the future than they were in the past.
Hey everyone, I think the productive discussion has been exhausted here and we are rehashing the same points. I would recommend if you feel strongly about this issue, to pass it through to your GM, HO or any other members of the League Leadership Team to ensure that your opinion is heard in further discussions, as we will continue to work through both this case, and the larger issues which have been raised as a part of it (both around re-sims and suitable punishments).
I appreciate those of you who have taken the time to formulate your thoughts into a well reasoned post, and especially so where it's constructive feedback and criticism rather than being delivered aggressively.
Feel free to direct your hate for closing this thread towards me.