This is amazing, I know one of the big things that people want to know is if there are hidden attributes in the code that could explain the success of failure of different players at the same level
(06-21-2020, 09:33 PM)timeconsumer Wrote:Yeah in the past we've found other weird "breakpoints" as well. One of them was 87 vs 88 arm iirc, I'd have to double check with spec on that. Another one was 98 vs 100 arm where 98 arm is better (assuming 90 int and acc as well). I think a lot has to do with the ratio between certain attributes.Absolutely correct with the mobile QB vs 'pocket' QB and the Speed breakpoints. I'll wait for infinite's post to not spoil anything, but the conventionally-held strategy is correct. It's actually worse for a 'pocket' QB to improve Speed past 79 (technically it becomes better again at 93+ Speed, but our self-imposed archetypes do not allow for such a player to exist). The only breakpoint I see specific to Arm is at 90, where WRs can get a slight boost. However, there is still much work to be done, so I wouldn't rule out anything. (06-21-2020, 10:11 PM)The_Kidd Wrote:It would be interesting to see if the other archetypes have a similar speed exploit with a different rating(likely wont be the same rushing totals, but is there a scaled down ratio of the same exploit?). And how many playbooks can effectively take advantage of the speed exploit?Almost every position undergoes some type of modification to Speed when a play goes live, and the reasons vary greatly from position to position. Almost universally, the higher boosts to Speed are given to players that have a lower base Speed stat. Conversely, if a player is having a great day statistically, they will start to receive penalties to Speed. I suspect this was likely done to prevent exploits and to make the game more realistic (e.g. no WRs having 200+ yard games on a regular basis). (06-22-2020, 02:14 AM)Mooty99 Wrote:This is amazing, I know one of the big things that people want to know is if there are hidden attributes in the code that could explain the success of failure of different players at the same levelI have found that there is a hidden attribute called 'Energy', which is related to but not identical to Endurance. However, I have not yet identified any specific effect that it has on gameplay--so far, it seems to be related more to the 'franchise mode' of the sim in regards to player negotiations and management. (06-22-2020, 09:08 AM)retrospace111 Wrote:does this mean agility is actually important for CBsThe only in-game effect I've found for Agility that would be relevant for a CB occurs if you manage to get the ball on a passing play (so via interception or fumble recovery). My current understanding is that if any player has possession of the ball on a passing play, they receive a ~5% reduction to Speed if their Agility is below 75. So Agility has some effect, but important for CBs? Not really. EDIT: I take this last point back. Agility also has a minor impact on every defender's ability to make a successful tackle. (06-22-2020, 02:13 PM)Maglubiyet Wrote:Almost every position undergoes some type of modification to Speed when a play goes live, and the reasons vary greatly from position to position. Almost universally, the higher boosts to Speed are give to players that have a lower base Speed stat. Conversely, if a player is having a great day statistically, they will start to receive penalties to Speed. I suspect this was likely done to prevent exploits and to make the game more realistic (e.g. no WRs having 200+ yard games on a regular basis). Interesting, I wonder if every attribute basically has a breakpoint, like in engineering when they teach you about applying force or tension to that "optimal" zone because otherwise too much will break the system, break the machine, break the device. Does each attribute have a built in countermeasure to nerf players from becoming OP(Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, Patrick Willis) when fully maxed out? And if so, what is the optimal zone where a player can perform with the most gain without those countermeasures being applied in game action? This almost makes me not want to fully max any attributes until I can start properly working with the game myself.
06-23-2020, 04:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2020, 04:28 AM by 37thchamber.)
(06-22-2020, 11:33 PM)The_Kidd Wrote:This almost makes me not want to fully max any attributes until I can start properly working with the game myself.From what I've seen, truly maxing any attribute (i.e. to 100) will always yield better outcomes than not maxed. The problems come in when looking at our archetype max values. For example, an all-purpose back is slightly better off staying at 94 and not maxing speed to 95, I believe. I impersonate a programmer for a living
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(06-22-2020, 05:13 PM)Maglubiyet Wrote:Absolutely correct with the mobile QB vs 'pocket' QB and the Speed breakpoints. I'll wait for infinite's post to not spoil anything, but the conventionally-held strategy is correct. It's actually worse for a 'pocket' QB to improve Speed past 79 (technically it becomes better again at 93+ Speed, but our self-imposed archetypes do not allow for such a player to exist). The only breakpoint I see specific to Arm is at 90, where WRs can get a slight boost. However, there is still much work to be done, so I wouldn't rule out anything. haha thanks! I'm working on doing some sim tests to see if I can confirm some of the thoughts I have based on the code, so it might take a bit. But this is correct as far as I can tell! (06-22-2020, 05:13 PM)Maglubiyet Wrote:Almost every position undergoes some type of modification to Speed when a play goes live, and the reasons vary greatly from position to position. Almost universally, the higher boosts to Speed are given to players that have a lower base Speed stat. Conversely, if a player is having a great day statistically, they will start to receive penalties to Speed. I suspect this was likely done to prevent exploits and to make the game more realistic (e.g. no WRs having 200+ yard games on a regular basis). Yup. It has some realism to it - for example if you have more than 30 rush attempts you slow down because you're probably tired. Weird that it has absolutely nothing to do with endurance though. (06-22-2020, 05:13 PM)Maglubiyet Wrote:I have found that there is a hidden attribute called 'Energy', which is related to but not identical to Endurance. However, I have not yet identified any specific effect that it has on gameplay--so far, it seems to be related more to the 'franchise mode' of the sim in regards to player negotiations and management. Haven't figured anything out with that either. It's bizarre. I'll have to look at the Chase and other in-play things and see if I can find it.
Awesome stuff man. I feel like a few of us have been trying to figure out this for years.
And the approach has always been an analyze the blackbox approach, but this takes it to the next level. [OPTION]Position: K/P
[OPTION]Archetype: Accurate
[OPTION]College: University of South Carolina
[OPTION]Nicknames: The Notorious D.U.G.
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Team History
[OPTION] S19 - Myrtle Beach Buccaneers
[OPTION] S20 - Tijuana Luchadores
[OPTION] S21 to S24 - Yellowknife Wraiths
[OPTION] S25 to S31 - New York Silverbacks
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Regular Season Stats
[OPTION] ---- Kicking Stats ----
[OPTION] S19 - 2 GP, 4 XPM, 5 XPA, 80.0%, 3 FGM, 5 FGA, 60.0%, 41 Long, 13 PTs
[OPTION] S20 - 14 GP, 18 XPM, 20 XPA, 90.0%, 19 FGM 21 FGA, 90.5%, 49 Long, 75 PTs
[OPTION] S21 - 13 GP, 34 XPM, 36 XPA, 94.4%, 17 FGM 21 FGA, 81.0%, 50 Long, 85 PTs
[OPTION] S22 - 13 GP, 43 XPM, 46 XPA, 93.5%, 27 FGM, 28 FGA, 96.4%, 56 Long, 124 PTs
[OPTION] S23 - 16 GP, 38 XPM, 39 XPA, 97.4%, 34 FGM, 36 FGA, 94.4%, 57 Long, 140 PTs
[OPTION] S24 - 16 GP, 39 XPM, 42 XPA, 92.9%, 20 FGM, 20 FGA, 100%, 52 Long, 99 PTs
[OPTION] S25 - 16 GP, 37 XPM, 38 XPA, 97.4%, 30 FGM, 32 FGA, 93.8%, 51 Long, 127 PTs
[OPTION] S26 - 16 GP, 34 XPM, 37 XPA, 91.9%, 25 FGM, 25 FGA, 100%, 47 Long, 109 PTs
[OPTION] S27 - 16 GP, 34 XPM, 34 XPA, 100%, 19 FGM, 22 FGA, 86.4%, 51 Long, 91 PTs
[OPTION] S28 - 16 GP, 33 XPM, 34 XPA, 97.1%, 39 FGM, 42 FGA, 92.9%, 55 Long, 150 Pts
[OPTION] S29 - 16 GP, 50 XPM, 52 XPA, 96.21%, 25 FGM, 33 FGA, 75.9%, 55 Long, 125 Pts
[OPTION] S30 - 16 GP, 46 XPM, 46 XPA, 100%, 24 FGM, 29 FGA, 88.9%, 56 Long, 118 Pts
[OPTION] S31 - 16 GP, 38 XPM, 38 XPA, 100%, 28 FGM, 33 FGA, 84.8%, 56 Long, 122 Pts
[OPTION] ---- Punting Stats ----
[OPTION] S20 - 14 GP, 91 Punts, 4138 Yds, 45.5 Avg, 18 Inside 20, 63 Long
[OPTION] S21 - 13 GP, 78 Punts, 3682 Yds, 47.2 Avg, 7 Inside 20, 71 Long
[OPTION] S22 - 13 GP, 73 Punts, 3383 Yds, 46.3 Avg, 16 Inside 20, 71 Long
[OPTION] S23 - 16 GP, 93 Punts, 4400 Yds, 47.3 Avg, 19 Inside 20, 72 Long
[OPTION] S24 - 16 GP, 95 Punts, 4433 Yds, 46.7 Avg, 18 Inside 20, 72 Long
[OPTION] S25 - 16 GP, 113 Punts, 5337 Yds, 47.2 Avg, 23 Inside 20, 72 Long
[OPTION] S26 - 16 GP, 96 Punts, 4606 Yds, 48 Avg, 15 Inside 20, 73 Long
[OPTION] S27 - 16 GP, 97 Punts, 4472 Yds, 46.1 Avg, 39 Inside 20, 69 Long
[OPTION] S28 - 16 GP, 89 Punts, 4231 Yds, 47.5 Avg, 39 Inside 20, 67 Long
[OPTION] S29 - 16 GP, 76 Punts, 3475 Yds, 45.7 Avg, 31 Inside 20, 68 Long
[OPTION] S30 - 16 GP, 72 Punts, 3341 Yds, 46.4 Avg, 28 Inside 20, 68 Long
[OPTION] S31 - 16 GP, 88 Punts, 4040 Yds, 45.9 Avg, 39 Inside 20, 65 Long
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Playoff Stats
[OPTION] ---- Kicking Stats ----
[OPTION] S19 - 1 GP, 2 XPM, 2 XPA, 100%, 1 FGM, 1 FGA, 100%, 18 Long, 5 PTs
[OPTION] S21 - 3 GP, 6 XPM, 7 XPA, 85.7%, 5 FGM, 5 FGA, 100%, 49 Long, 21 PTs
[OPTION] S22 - 1 GP, 1 XPM, 1 XPA, 100%, 3 FGM, 4 FGA, 75%, 38 Long, 10 PTs
[OPTION] S23 - 2 GP, 6 XPM, 6 XPA, 100%, 3 FGM, 4 FGA, 75%, 57 Long, 15 PTs
[OPTION] S26 - 1 GP, 5 XPM, 5 XPA, 100%, 0 FGM, 0 FGA, 100%, 0 Long, 5 PTs
[OPTION] S28 - 1 GP, 1 XPM, 1 XPA, 100%, 1 FGM, 1 FGA, 100%, 39 Long, 4 PTs
[OPTION] S29 - 3 GP, 10 XPM, 10 XPA, 100%, 9 FGM, 9 FGA, 100%, 51 Long, 37 PTs
[OPTION] S30 - 2 GP, 5 XPM, 5 XPA, 100%, 3 FGM, 3 FGA, 100%, 49 Long, 14 PTs
[OPTION] ---- Punting Stats ----
[OPTION] S21 - 3 GP, 25 Punts, 1150 Yds, 46.0 Avg, 2 Inside 20, 64 Long
[OPTION] S22 - 1 GP, 6 Punts, 247 Yds, 41.2 Avg, 0 Inside 20, 57 Long
[OPTION] S23 - 2 GP, 11 Punts, 493 Yds, 44.8 Avg, 1 Inside 20, 60 Long
[OPTION] S26 - 1 GP, 9 Punts, 422 Yds, 46.9 Avg, 2 Inside 20, 70 Long
[OPTION] S28 - 1 GP, 4 Punts, 163 Yds, 40.8 Avg, 1 Inside 20, 46 Long
[OPTION] S29 - 3 GP, 11 Punts, 489 Yds, 43.2 Avg, 1 Inside 20, 53 Long
[OPTION] S30 - 2 GP, 8 Punts, 391 Yds, 48.9 Avg, 3 Inside 20, 63 Long
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Trophy Case and Awards
[OPTION] 1x Kicker of The Year (S22)
[OPTION] 2x Punter of The Year (S25, S28)
[OPTION] 4x Pro Bowl (S22, S24, S25, S28)
[OPTION] 2x Ultimus Champion (S23, S29)
[OPTION] 2x NSFC Champion (S21, S23)
[OPTION] 1x ASFC Champion (S29)
[OPTION] 2x DSFL OPoTG
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Other Accomplishments
[OPTION] Tied Playoff Field Goal Length Record (57 yards in S23)
[OPTION] Team USA Member (S22, S23, S25, S26)
[OPTION] S24 Charity Tournament Champion (Atlanta Pink Ponies)
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION]Position: LB/DE
[OPTION]Archetype: Power Rusher Turned Speed Rusher
[OPTION]College: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Team History
[OPTION] S7 - Tijuana Luchadores
[OPTION] S8 to S13 - San Jose Sabercats
[OPTION] S14 to S18 - Baltimore Hawks
[OPTION] S19 - Arizona Outlaws
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Regular Season Stats
[OPTION] S7 - Tijuana - 45 Tck, 6 Sacks, 1 TFL, 0 Int, 8 PD, 0 FF, 0 FR
[OPTION] S8 - San Jose - 73 Tck, 2 Sacks, 7 TFL, 0 Int, 6 PD, 0 FF, 0 FR
[OPTION] S9 - San Jose - 88 Tck, 4 Sacks, 2 TFL, 2 Int, 4 PD, 1 FF, 1 FR
[OPTION] S10 - San Jose - 117 Tck, 2 Sacks, 2 TFL, 1 Int, 1 PD, 0 FF, 1 FR
[OPTION] S11 - San Jose - 114 Tck, 5 Sacks, 1 TFL, 0 Int, 5 PD, 2 FF, 1 FR
[OPTION] S12 - San Jose - 40 Tck, 4 Sacks, 9 TFL, 0 Int, 13 PD, 0 FF, 0 FR*
[OPTION] S13 - San Jose - 26 Tck, 1 Sack, 4 TFL, 0 Int, 0 PD, 0 FF, 0 FR*
[OPTION]S14 - Baltimore - 90 Tck, 10 Sacks, 1 TFL, 0 Int, 14 PD, 1 FF, 0 FR
[OPTION]S15 - Baltimore - 96 Tck, 12 Sacks, 1 TFL, 0 Int, 15 PD, 0 FF, 0 FR
[OPTION]S16 - Baltimore - 105 Tck, 10 Sacks, 0 TFL, 0 Int, 16 PD, 2 FF, 2 FR
[OPTION]S17 - Baltimore - 89 Tck, 9 Sacks, 2 TFL, 0 Int, 3 PD, 1 FF, 0 FR
[OPTION]S18 - Baltimore - 85 Tck, 8 Sacks, 0 TFL, 1 Int, 16 PD, 0 FF, 1 FR
[OPTION]S19 - Arizona - 97 Tck, 3 Sacks, 0 TFL, 0 Int, 3 PD, 0 FF, 1 FR
[OPTION] *Season played as DE instead of LB
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Playoff Stats
[OPTION]S7 - Tijuana - 15 Tck, 2 Sacks, 0 TFL, 0 Int, 0 PD (2 games)
[OPTION]S12 - San Jose - 0 Tck, 0 Sacks, 0 TFL, 0 Int, 0 PD (1 game)
[OPTION]S13 - San Jose - 5 Tck, 1 Sack, 0 TFL, 0 Int, 0 PD (1 game)
[OPTION]S14 - Baltimore - 8 Tck, 2 Sacks, 0 TFL, 0 Int, 1 PD (1 game)
[OPTION]S15 - Baltimore - 13 Tck, 3 Sacks, 0 TFL, 1 Int, 2 PD (2 games)
[OPTION]S17 - Baltimore - 19 Tck, 2 Sacks, 0 TFL, 0 Int, 1 PD (3 games)
[OPTION]S18 - Baltimore - 14 Tck, 1 Sacks, 1 FF, 0 Int, 1 PD (2 games)
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Trophy Case and Awards
[OPTION] Tijuana Luchadores Ring of Honor (S24 class)
[OPTION] 5x Pro Bowl (S10, S14, S15, S16, S18)
[OPTION] 1x Ultimus Champion (S15)
[OPTION] 2x NSFL NSFC Champion (S15, S17)
[OPTION] 16x Defensive Player of the Game
[OPTION] 1x DSFL SFC Champion (S7)
[OPTION] 1000+ Tackle Club
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Front Office History
[OPTION] S8 to S12 - Co-GM of Tijuana Luchadores (Co-GM: nunccoepi)
[OPTION] S13 - Head Coach of San Jose Sabercats
[OPTION] S14 to S17- Co-GM of Baltimore Hawks (Co-GM: nunccoepi)
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Trophy/Award Case
[OPTION] 1x Ultimus Champion (S15)
[OPTION] 2x NSFL NSFC Champion (S15, S17)
[OPTION] 3x Ultimini Champion (S8, S9, S10)
[OPTION] 4x DSFL SFC Champion (S8, S9, S10, S11)
[OPTION] 3x DSFL Co-GM of the Year (S8, S9, S10)
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Overall Stats
[OPTION] Regular Season 85-40
[OPTION] Post Season 11-5
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Regular Season Stats
[OPTION] S8 - TIJ - 8-6 - 2nd in SFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION] S9 - TIJ - 10-4 - 1st in SFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION] S10 - TIJ - 10-4 - 1st in SFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION] S11 - TIJ - 5-9 - 2nd in SFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION] S12 - TIJ - 9-5 - 1st in SFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION] S13 - SJS - 12-2 - 1st in ASFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION]S14 - BAL - 11-3 - 1st in NSFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION]S15 - BAL - 12-2 - 1st in NSFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION]S16 - BAL - 7-6 - 4th in NSFC Division
[OPTION]S17 - BAL - 8-5 -2nd in NSFC Division - Made Playoffs
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Post Season Stats
[OPTION] S8 - TIJ - 2-0 - Won Ultimini
[OPTION] S9 - TIJ - 2-0 - Won Ultimini
[OPTION] S10 - TIJ - 2-0 - Won Ultimini
[OPTION] S11 - TIJ - 1-1 - Lost Ultimini
[OPTION] S12 - TIJ - 0-1 - Lost in SFC Championship
[OPTION] S13 - SJS - 0-1 - Lost in ASFC Championship
[OPTION] S14 - BAL - 0-1 - Lost in NSFC Championship
[OPTION] S15 - BAL - 2-0 - Won Ultimus
[OPTION] S16 - Did not make playoffs
[OPTION] S17 - BAL - 2-1 - Lost Ultimus
[OPTION]------------------------------------------------------------
[OPTION] Other Career Achievements
[OPTION] Lead Tijuana to first Franchise Ultimini (S8)
[OPTION] First DSFL Franchise to win 3 Ultimini's in a row (S10)
[OPTION] GMed the only shutout in Ultimus History (S15)
[OPTION] Created QuickKetchup Strategy Testing
[OPTION] Co-GM of Great Lakes Dragons in S24 Charity Tournament
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