An Obvious Confession and an Apology

[Pat]

And I'm sorry that now there are people reacts g negatively towards others because they kept you a secret. "Oh no I liked Jiggly. Eww gross."

Don't even have a problem with Jiggly here, actually quite sympathetic to the situation and understand why a fresh start was desired. 

But you can't deny some well respected users helped conspire to keep a multi account user secret when not being sure if it was legal for a whole season. Don't think that's kinda messed up? These people were in war rooms at the time of the draft, and it would take a lot of convincing to make me think that knowledge of jggly's second account wasn't used.

No one's trying to deny that multiple respected users were involved as far as I can see. Generally when one points an Ace Attorney style figure to demand that someone admit something is true, there should be some leadup to that being in question first. Rather than everyone already agreeing to it ahead of time. 

Now, as generally agreed by everyone, several high profile users including 3 former members of HO were approached and asked about it and all seem to have come to the conclusion that it was in good faith and not actually against the rules as they existed. I know you framed it as "not sure if legal" and all that conspiratorial negative busoness but there's usually a term for things that aren't in the rulebook. It's legal. And if it wasn't, there wouldn't be not own but two new rules making it illegal. 

Is it messed up? I don't think so. I can think of some other things in the very recent past that were totally messed up though.

I wouldn't expect the league's Rita Skeeter to see the issue with stirring the pot yet again so quickly though. 

Someone wanted something positive and others helped. Others who's judgement is well regarded. If you view that as a negative it's because you brought that negativity with you. Now you may go. I'm sure you have a "what entirely negative opinions about every member of HO" article to work on.

For someone who's trying to grandstand about people talking shit you're doing quite a good job of making personal and pointed attacks here. How about we don't do that? Jimi didn't come out and call people names or anything like that, he simply said, "this doesn't seem legal and feels wrong." You can simply disagree using the points you did and leave it at that. Not sure why you felt it necessary to go from conversing to attacking.

[Big Edd]

huh

[Bayley]

So people knew and still let Philly and London draft knowing well the situation without disclosing to either GM pair? Cmon now

@124715 and @infinitempg , can you explain to me why you kept Jiggly's identity a secret? I don't know the others that well but I hold y'all to a bit of a higher esteem. 

If people were unsure about the legality of this, couldn't it have been cleared with HO in like a day? Why did y'all keep this hidden for an entire season? 

It's frankly infuriating to think both of you had a part in this scheme and let it go on.

Because (a) in my professional opinion it *was* legal and (b) I believe Jiggly deserved a fresh start. If HO wishes to punish me for protecting a user who quite frankly would never have been allowed to recreate peacefully under their old username, so be it.

I stand by this decision fully. I still don’t think YTB should have been punished either. As far as I’m concerned in the interpretation of the old rules (prior to this past rules summit) essentially deactivating your old account and starting new was legal. The definition of multi required active accounts and to some extent, active players on both accounts. And so, I advised Jiggly that it was in fact legal, and to not do anything stupid.

Jiggly was my first GM. While we certainly have been on opposite sides of many league issues, they are at least one user who does not deserve the amount of ridicule they get. And that’s why I did what I did.

I stand with this wholeheartedly. I indeed knew as well. I think this is about enjoying a fucking league. Jiggly created a new persona, who the hell cares? We are all creating our own persona as a username. Does it sting or hurt to know you've been lied to, sure, to Moris point, I absolutely understand your side. My thing is, we're all catfishing. Who knows if anything we say is true to the next person? I think that Jiggly was always going to have their name follow. I do think that it was hurting their ability enjoy a fun thing we do to literally escape real life. If you're mad about this, think to yourself, was anything malicious? Was Jiggly as taka hurting your ability to enjoy the league? Because, Jiggly being Jiggly was hurting their ability to have fun in the league.

To @nunccoepi , if Jiggly didn't come out, it was coming out in the way of a punishment thread from HO for the rookie tasks.

Thats all, go bash me or whatever now. My DMs are open. I'm sorry this happened, Jiggly. I really am.

[Big Edd]

So people knew and still let Philly and London draft knowing well the situation without disclosing to either GM pair? Cmon now

@124715 and @infinitempg , can you explain to me why you kept Jiggly's identity a secret? I don't know the others that well but I hold y'all to a bit of a higher esteem. 

If people were unsure about the legality of this, couldn't it have been cleared with HO in like a day? Why did y'all keep this hidden for an entire season? 

It's frankly infuriating to think both of you had a part in this scheme and let it go on.

Because (a) in my professional opinion it *was* legal and (b) I believe Jiggly deserved a fresh start. If HO wishes to punish me for protecting a user who quite frankly would never have been allowed to recreate peacefully under their old username, so be it.

I stand by this decision fully. I still don’t think YTB should have been punished either. As far as I’m concerned in the interpretation of the old rules (prior to this past rules summit) essentially deactivating your old account and starting new was legal. The definition of multi required active accounts and to some extent, active players on both accounts. And so, I advised Jiggly that it was in fact legal, and to not do anything stupid.

Jiggly was my first GM. While we certainly have been on opposite sides of many league issues, they are at least one user who does not deserve the amount of ridicule they get. And that’s why I did what I did.

I stand with this wholeheartedly. I indeed knew as well. I think this is about enjoying a fucking league. Jiggly created a new persona, who the hell cares? We are all creating our own persona as a username. Does it sting or hurt to know you've been lied to, sure, to Moris point, I absolutely understand your side. My thing is, we're all catfishing. Who knows if anything we say is true to the next person? I think that Jiggly was always going to have their name follow. I do think that it was hurting their ability enjoy a fun thing we do to literally escape real life. If you're mad about this, think to yourself, was anything malicious? Was Jiggly as taka hurting your ability to enjoy the league? Because, Jiggly being Jiggly was hurting their ability to have fun in the league.

To @nunccoepi , if Jiggly didn't come out, it was coming out in the way of a punishment thread from HO for the rookie tasks.

Thats all, go bash me or whatever now. My DMs are open. I'm sorry this happened, Jiggly. I really am.

BAYLEY CAN YOU PLEASE UNBLOCK ME

[nunccoepi]

Sorry edited my post to what I meant to say which is that the advisers are taking more heat than they deserve, not less.

And Jiggly, im sorry this has happened to you. People who choose to be shitty to others are the real ones to blame. So thank you for reminding us of that again, and for having the grace to do it without calling those people out with similar vitriol.

[Pat]

So people knew and still let Philly and London draft knowing well the situation without disclosing to either GM pair? Cmon now

@124715 and @infinitempg , can you explain to me why you kept Jiggly's identity a secret? I don't know the others that well but I hold y'all to a bit of a higher esteem. 

If people were unsure about the legality of this, couldn't it have been cleared with HO in like a day? Why did y'all keep this hidden for an entire season? 

It's frankly infuriating to think both of you had a part in this scheme and let it go on.

Because (a) in my professional opinion it *was* legal and (b) I believe Jiggly deserved a fresh start. If HO wishes to punish me for protecting a user who quite frankly would never have been allowed to recreate peacefully under their old username, so be it.

I stand by this decision fully. I still don’t think YTB should have been punished either. As far as I’m concerned in the interpretation of the old rules (prior to this past rules summit) essentially deactivating your old account and starting new was legal. The definition of multi required active accounts and to some extent, active players on both accounts. And so, I advised Jiggly that it was in fact legal, and to not do anything stupid.

Jiggly was my first GM. While we certainly have been on opposite sides of many league issues, they are at least one user who does not deserve the amount of ridicule they get. And that’s why I did what I did.

I stand with this wholeheartedly. I indeed knew as well. I think this is about enjoying a fucking league. Jiggly created a new persona, who the hell cares? We are all creating our own persona as a username. Does it sting or hurt to know you've been lied to, sure, to Moris point, I absolutely understand your side. My thing is, we're all catfishing. Who knows if anything we say is true to the next person? I think that Jiggly was always going to have their name follow. I do think that it was hurting their ability enjoy a fun thing we do to literally escape real life. If you're mad about this, think to yourself, was anything malicious? Was Jiggly as taka hurting your ability to enjoy the league? Because, Jiggly being Jiggly was hurting their ability to have fun in the league.

To @nunccoepi , if Jiggly didn't come out, it was coming out in the way of a punishment thread from HO for the rookie tasks.

Thats all, go bash me or whatever now. My DMs are open. I'm sorry this happened, Jiggly. I really am.

So you and I had a really long and deep conversation about this whole thing the other day, so this obviously isn't directed at you since you already know my feelings (thanks for the talk by the way, it was really great to get your view).

I've seen this idea of, "we're all anonymous, so what's the difference" thrown out a few times, and while I think it comes from the right place and I get the meaning, to me it's the single biggest reason why these second accounts are wrong. Unless we choose to be, we are all anonymous and that means that you are relying on others to be truthful to a strong degree. To be a member of a community like this you have to believe that others are acting in good faith. That is required by both sides. 

If someone with possibly a bad reputation wants to come back and make a new name for themselves they should in 99.999% of situations be allowed to do so, and should be allowed to do it without being harassed or bullied or anything like that. With that, though, the other users here have the right to make that choice for themselves. If you hide who you are you are taking that choice away from them, and that's not fair. Maybe I put too much faith in this league and community, but I truly believe that if Jiggly came back on his old account and simply said, "Hey I know that in the past I may have made some bad decisions, but I just want to come back and lie low and have fun playing fake football" that someone would have given him a chance. All it takes is one person.

Jiggly, if you're reading this, I want you to know that I and the rest of our team hold no ill will towards you. I appreciate you coming forward and hope at some point you can come back in earnest and get that shot at redemption.

[zeagle1]

can someone tell me what the fuck hololive is? and what a vtuber is? I've never felt more like a boomer than I do right now

[unconfident]

can someone tell me what the fuck hololive is? and what a vtuber is? I've never felt more like a boomer than I do right now

Hololive is a Youtube talent agency that has a bunch of Vtubers on it. A Vtuber (virtual youtuber) is a youtuber who does youtuber stuff, but instead of using a facecam they use a computer generated and motion tracked anime avatar. I dont personally enjoy it but i can see the appeal

[zeagle1]

can someone tell me what the fuck hololive is? and what a vtuber is? I've never felt more like a boomer than I do right now

Hololive is a Youtube talent agency that has a bunch of Vtubers on it. A Vtuber (virtual youtuber) is a youtuber who does youtuber stuff, but instead of using a facecam they use a computer generated and motion tracked anime avatar. I dont personally enjoy it but i can see the appeal

that... actually makes sense lol

Thanks dude!

[124715]

Infinite basically took the words out of my mouth but I let this continue because:

1. Jiggly's creation of the second account was not illegal by the rulebook and I feel pretty confident that he wouldn't have done it if it wasn't. Which is why it's unfortunate that a rule created during the second account's career was applied to it. I didn't tell anyone because he didn't do anything wrong and I didn't think I was screwing anyone over because even if he did get "outed" during the career he would've been able to finish it out regardless under the old rules. I urged Jiggly to skip the rookie PT and the free training but I don't think it needed to be this big of a deal.

Similarly, YTB should not have been punished under the old rule. A meme post does not constitute an active player; that's the exact reason why the language "meaningful activity" exists in the rulebook. YTB would indeed fall under the new rule voted in this season, but did not break any rules under the old rulebook and should not have been punished.

2. I did want to see what Jiggly would do with a clean slate, and it seems like he made it work well enough. As jiggly pointed out to me, people he didn't even know were dunking on him in all sorts of places - discord channels, comment sections, articles, etc. And I don't blame him for wanting to get out from that and try again.

As for the issue of unfair war room knowledge, I didn't even tell Honolulu's war room. Jiggly told me he didn't want to be on such a new team so I told the war room something about Cobra Kai earning too well and we didn't draft him.