Laziness Or Cheating?: My Response

[Official DT]

To TB: Not sure how you do your updates as I haven't peeked at them but I label mine. Again not sure if you do or not, but I usually have my update thread pulled up when grabbing things to update my guy with.

To the issue at hand: The updater(s) should be at fault here as well because they let this go on. Sure some people's updates may look a mess, but it's also their job to spot inaccuracies like this. This could have all been prevented had said updater(s) looked and realized the date(s)/task(s).

To HO: Seems a bit much for him. The punishment should be split down the middle with the updater(s) as that would be more than enough fair punishment. I mean being an updater, your job is also to make sure no cheating happens. That means clicking links, checking dates and which task(s) are being updated. If an updater or updaters allowed this to persist without saying something, shouldn't they be at fault as well?

[DeathOnReddit]

Were not going to punish updaters for your mistakes.

[Official DT]

Were not going to punish updaters for your mistakes.

Wrong answer. They are just as much to blame.

[DeathOnReddit]

Wrong answer. They are just as much to blame.

If you think we should punish the updater when they have a tough enough job as is, especially with how tb labels his tpe gains, then idk.

[LGMForever]

Yes and no. An Updater should be checking all links anyways. That's their job.

Maybe we should have updaters update during the off-season as well? I mean it was 3 weeks before I got updated again.

Yeah, I did hyperbolize a lot there. I should’ve been more specific there in saying that PTs and Activity Checks should’ve been labeled more directly so updaters don’t have to go through the links of the previous week making sure nothing matches up and can just look at the list of claims of the previous week.

[bovovovo]

I can weight in a bit here and hopefully help shed some light on stuff...

one thing to keep in mind is that we've been working on a "player updater" tool using google sheets that will hopefully help with a lot of what people have brought up so far.

If I was doing this deliberately, I probably would have stopped after the updating team realized I double-claimed for a whopping two times before then. .... But I can just say that they made the wrong call in determining this as cheating. In theory, I should be getting punished for messing up something and getting warned twice over for it.

I agree with this, I personally don't think you were cheating because if you were you'd be the dumbest cheater ever... I think that I (hopefully) made it clear that if you kept making the same mistake I'd have to go to HO about it and let them do what they do. So I personally don't think you were cheating.

The problem is if people realize that they can double-claim stuff and make beneficial mistakes on their updates time after time and never get in trouble, then they could start gaming the system by double claiming things. At worst it'd get caught and nothing happens. At best you get more TPE than you should have. Does that make sense? We have to draw the line somewhere.

The updating team should have let me know at least a little sooner so that I can correct my problem..... This should be the updating team’s job, and if someone double-claims, maybe check in with them and see if they know they’re double-claiming. In my case, there were only two cases of this, spread out through the entire month of August. I double-claimed again at the end of September, which made the updating team JUST NOW go ahead and double check all of my claims. Why am I being incriminated for a mistake that my updater ended up missing?

This is exactly what we did? The first time it was noticed, you had double claimed three different things in one update, we looked back and saw you did it in the past. We let you know you were double claiming and to please try to be more careful.

Then in the very next update we noticed you did it again. We let you and your GMs know so that you could fix it (which you did)

Then in the very next update after that, you did it again. For the third time in as many updates after getting alerted about it twice.

So, in my opinion, we did exactly what you propose we should be doing. I honestly think we did our due diligence and tried to help you out and I'm sorry you don't feel that way, but I'm not sure what else we could have done.

But, in all honesty, you are the only person I've ever seen do something like this repeatedly. Double claiming TPE tasks is not some league-wide issue, let alone doing it repeatedly after being alerted about it.

But they have to make sure that no one is double-claiming, that's just part of their job. If they double-checked everyone's updates, then the entire double-claiming problem wouldn't be a thing, even if people were doing it deliberately. The only reason why I could see this being punishable is if both the player AND the updater were letting it slide. But that is absolutely not what is happening here.

Addressed this earlier... we did stop double-claiming from happening, but we have to draw the line somewhere. What you were doing was a unique thing, people do not and as far as I know have never just routinely double-claimed things repeatedly, and we tried (twice) to help you out and talk to your GMs about helping you out. At some point we had to draw the line, otherwise someone could double-claim stuff all the time on purpose knowing that if they get caught they'll never get punished, and if it's missed then now they get extra TPE. I don't think you were doing this but we have to draw the line somewhere, ya know?

Don't know much about the situation, but the updater updating you definitely should have been noticing that a lot sooner and whoever the updater was is partly to blame in my opinion.

The original double-claim back in August got missed, but the updater was the one who noticed the more recent time. Basically the timeline goes:

~ Updater notices that youngTB double claimed 3 different PT/AC/Trivia tasks in his update and told me about it. I looked at youngTB's old stuff and noticed he had double claimed something in the past that went unnoticed as well. I told youngTB about it and asked him to be more careful. I also let his GMs know so they could help him out

~ The next week, the updater notices that youngTB double-claimed something again. This time it was caught early on the Saturday so I let youngTB and his GMs know so he could fix it and be more careful. I think it was at this point I let one person on HO know in a "hey fyi this is happening" kinda thing. Didn't advocate for punishment or anything and I don't even think that HO member shared it with the rest of HO

~ The week after that (three weeks in a row now), youngTB double claimed an equipment. The updater caught that, let me know, and then I let HO know because, in my opinion, three times in three weeks after getting warned every time is very quickly approaching "super sketchy" territory.

Hopefully that helps clear things up.

Wrong answer. They are just as much to blame.

Read the above, hopefully it sheds more light on what exactly happened.

Also, we could use more updaters and are hiring.

[Official DT]

If you think we should punish the updater when they have a tough enough job as is, especially with how tb labels his tpe gains, then idk.

It's not that tough of a job tbh lol

[kckolbe]

I've looked at the update page, and the vague labeling makes duplicates hard to see without actually clicking on them. Most people label their updates a lot more thoroughly, making the user more likely to catch their own mistakes.

It sucks that you lost TPE, but did you really lose 16 TPE or just 8? Because I was under the impression that 8 of what you lost was double-claimed and should be voided, and the penalty was another 8.

[ADwyer87]

I've looked at the update page, and the vague labeling makes duplicates hard to see without actually clicking on them.  Most people label their updates a lot more thoroughly, making the user more likely to catch their own mistakes. 

It sucks that you lost TPE, but did you really lose 16 TPE or just 8?  Because I was under the impression that 8 of what you lost was double-claimed and should be voided, and the penalty was another 8.

He lost 16, the double claim was already voided

[kckolbe]

He lost 16, the double claim was already voided

Oh, so double after the void. Plus 6 million. Not gonna lie, I think that is too harsh. Given that this was the third instance in under a month, I get it.

I am glad that HO penalized small amounts, and I hope we see more of that in the future.