S29 DSFL Rules Summit Results

[mithrandir]

4. Depending on how many 200+ TPE call ups an organization has a season, they are given additional GM bots to help alleviate the penalty of losing a bunch of their players. The proposed scale is this:
2-4 Call ups is 1 additional GM Bot
5-8 Call ups is another additional GM Bot
9+ Call ups is one last additional GM Bot
This would mean it is possible for a team to have the normal 2 GM Bots, plus an additional 3 for a total of 5 GM Bots maximum.
This rule change would go into effect in S29 if passed. With the declining numbers in the DSFL right now, the extra roster help in the form of these extra GM bots is necessary immediately to provide the best experience for rookies.

13 For - 1 Against

Words can not even describe how disappointing this is. Absolutely unbelievable.

Heya @GlimsTC just curious to hear what you don't like about this rule.
I (Portland) voted for it because we thought the rule promoted developing your players, so teams that had tons of callups wouldn't be significantly less competitive than teams full of DSFL lifers.
Additionally I was a fan of this rule because it theoretically should (slightly) soften the blow of one team getting absolutely decimated by callups like Norfolk was in S25.
Additionally, the same bot rules still apply, so I don't believe that adding more GM bots takes away from user's playing time or anything like that. Plus, GM bot aren't that good so it's not like a team with 4 or 5 GM bots is gonna be a world-beater.

I went over this in a previous post where I said

Wanted to touch on this one because I think it is easily the biggest one that goes against the spirit of the DSFL. Straight up, losing is part of the DSFL. Bad seasons are part of the DSFL. People have this idea that the Ultimini is a huge make or break goal, and thus they focus on the complete wrong thing. What's the point of winning if the majority of your team is bots? At the end of the day, it's your job as a DSFL GM to develop players and give them a fun experience, win or lose. To set them up for ISFL success. If people are buying into your system, believe me, they'll be having fun no matter what. By trying to fix a temporary issue that falls onto the recruitment team, this rule will end up harming the DSFL for seasons to come. That being said, I understand the intentions behind it, so I don't fault whoever suggested this in the slightest.

But I do want to add onto this, to at least explain some of the repercussions now that it's passed. First and foremost, this rule is never ever going to be repealed now. It's aiming to fix a temporary issue, with something that no GM is going to want to give up now that they have it. So, say we have another big Reddit draft on par with S25, you just lost a lot of players, but now you're about to draft like, 13 guys to the team, but on top of that you can also add up to 5 GM bots. So instead of going through the natural process of things, you're basically getting a free super team for being a super team previously. And I guess if you lose players at a disproportionate pace, then you get to keep having holes in your roster. You're basically encouraging DSFL GMs to try and get DSFL lifers on the roster, since you'll be rewarded more for long time DSFL players than you would having short term DSFL players. The rule does state, after all, that the player counts towards the total if they're at 200+ TPE.

Not only that, but GM bots already played into draft strategy to some degree, but now they'll play an even bigger role in who you draft or pick up in waivers. Like, why even risk picking someone up on waivers when you're already running 3-4 GM bots? So now you'll have more people needing to position swap just to get onto teams late or people sitting on waivers longer because god forbid we give someone a chance if it means it could hurt a shot at an Ultimini, which I know for a fact is the mindset of some people.

The point is, this rule just promotes all the bad parts of the DSFL. There should never be a constant super team, there should never be a competitive reason to aim highly for people who have no intention of going into the ISFL, and there shouldn't be a reason for people to be discouraged from getting waivers or drafting people. All of these are further encouraged by this new rule.

I appreciate the response (and it's nice talking to you too, hope you're doing well!)

You raise some super valid concerns.

One thing that I think is worth pointing out is that GM Bots don't get anything in their position skill attribute so a 100 TPE GM bot is still worse than a 100 TPE human.
Frankly, before the draft, most DSFL teams were down to single digit humans, I wanna say a few were even down to 5 or 6. I totally agree that losing/rebuilding is part of the DSFL (believe me, I never went above .500 as a player lol), but I'd have to imagine that being on a completely uncompetitive team would be a huge downer my personal biggest goal was to try and keep teams from having 3-11 seasons where they get clobbered every game. I was fortunate enough to never be on a team that was truly uncompetitive but I *assume* that being on such a team could be bad for retention.

A personal concern of mine is that the big reddit classes (18, 22, 25) are a thing of the past. I know there were mitigating circumstances with the S28 class, but class sizes in general have been down and that makes it very hard to field anything close to a complete team. This was really the thing that spurred the discussion for this rule.

As for considering GM bots as part of your waiver strategy, I'd like to think that wouldn't happen. As I mentioned GM bots are worse than humans with the same TPE and GM bots max at at 100 TPE. Say you get a waiver on the day before the TDL, a GM bot would only be 70 or 80 TPE, and a new player can easily hit 70 or 80 TPE in a week if they max earn and get equipment quickly. Plus, at the end of a season, the GM bot goes away and ideally the human sticks around for longer.

I agree completely with Glims on this. One point that I see this being especially bad is late-season waivers. You say that this won't affect waiver strategy because most players pass 100 TPE before the end of the season. However, I remember what waivers are like in the DSFL. It's a crapshoot. I had some go on to long careers in the ISFL, but many of my waivers never got past 57 TPE. I mean, a few of my waiver claims never even joined the locker room. Simply stated, this rule gives GMs potential competitive reasons for not taking a shot on a late-season waivers player, because a 100 TPE GM bot is significantly more reliable at the end of the season than a shot on a totally unknown commodity off waivers.

[qWest]

I agree completely with Glims on this. One point that I see this being especially bad is late-season waivers. You say that this won't affect waiver strategy because most players pass 100 TPE before the end of the season. However, I remember what waivers are like in the DSFL. It's a crapshoot. I had some go on to long careers in the ISFL, but many of my waivers never got past 57 TPE. I mean, a few of my waiver claims never even joined the locker room. Simply stated, this rule gives GMs potential competitive reasons for not taking a shot on a late-season waivers player, because a 100 TPE GM bot is significantly more reliable at the end of the season than a shot on a totally unknown commodity off waivers.

Post TDL waivers are already exempted from the DSFL's DC rules. It was always a huge crapshoot for TDL pickups bc it's already so late and you'd have to hope that they created at positions of need. Overall though, the purpose of these late season waivers is to give early creates some level of involvement in the league as they wait out the long path to the draft, not for them to come in and immediately become starters. Even then, just doing rookie tasks, wiki, training, and AC would easily put them at the same level if not higher than a GM bot, plus getting players into the LR off waivers is a huge way to keep building your team and doing the work that good DSFL GMs really want to do: developing. If GMs choose to rely on their GM bots they'll 100% be punished not just because their team will be worse but also because that crap is pretty easy to see and know that that GM isn't right for the DSFL.

Perhaps if we were more aggressive in trying to steer these kinds of GMs back towards the core purpose of the DSFL or just away from the DSFL entirely we wouldn't have to worry about them being lazy because they can get a couple extra crappy GM bots.