GFX pay adjustment

[NUCK]

So what, we're going to use a timer to judge the amount of time everybody spends on their sigs? Why should I be paid less because I learnt how to use Photoshop before I joined the league and it takes me less effort to do something?

If you refuse to get better because you won't get paid as much, it's your problem.

I can't really argue that but I am concerned that if we start to give 1's and 2's to new artist. We really run the risk of discouraging them away rather than push them to succeed.

What about a tier system, let's say.

New comers

Paint

Experienced

So basically we would still grade out of 5 but the reward cash would be altered to reflect the skill tier.

Am I just being to concerned about people's feelings?

[CaptainCats]

I don't really see an issue with auto 5s, I should hope most people have enough pride in their work that they will look to improve and, like @enigmatic said, if they don't that's their loss.

[Esa77]

My only real concern with auto 5's, is that you see the quality of work decrease.

I mean there is no perfect system, or not that I can think of. The old VHL format was really close. But fundamental flaud as again, it's dependant on, the quality and settings of the screen ones veiwing it on, the mood of the grader, graders sobriety level, personal opinion, personal likes and dislikes, personal feelings.

We can't just word count GFX and hand out cash. We also can't acuretly rate a users effort level and/or punish those who try hard but will just never be as talented as others. Nor should we disregard the effort put in on any program. @Esa77

But this is fun, very fucking serious fun! Should people really judged at all, beyond there own judgement of there work?

I honestly have no answer and no matter what someone will be unhappy.

:old:

PS I hate grading paint, it's to arbitrary.

Appreciate ol' Nuck recognizing my efforts using programs other than photoshop, thanks pal. Yes while my work will never be considered good, usually it does take a fair amount of effort/trail/error to get a final product that looks decent enough to not be totally embarrassed about submitting, lol. 

[Geh]

I don't like autoing anything, the tough grading system of the VHL is what pushed me to want to get better, but I see the virtue of the auto system as PT sim leagues might not be a thing anymore if not for auto grades.

[Merica]

We don't grade media on effort, so I don't know why graphics would be any different.

[NUCK]

We don't grade media on effort, so I don't know why graphics would be any different.

Because you can't word count it and you need some way grade it.

[Pandar]

@37thchamber the sad fact is it does in fact end in lower quality work when it's an auto grade.

Personally, I disagree. I've spent over a year grading GFX for both SBA and ~6 months for the VHL. Both sites use auto-6 now. When I started on SBA, it was not auto. In a few rare cases, I've seen lower quality sigs than I might have before we switched to auto grades. In general those sigs fell into one of 2 main categories:
1. The person was new to sig making, and was willing to put out a product that they might have spent more time on otherwise.
2. The person was (self-admittedly) pressed for time that week, and just needed to get the PT done.

Most of the sigs I see are still high quality sigs, because people take pride in their work.


The other reason that I think that both of these sites continued to see high quality sigs is that people are only required to do one per week. If I had to do more than that, I would be far more inclined to turn out lower quality stuff just so that I could meet my "quota."

[701]

Like I've said a million times, I'm not here for my grades to reflect some CnC you may have. I'm 110% down for some good ol CnC, just not effecting my grade. It's demoralizing seeing things get such high grades, and knowing I work pretty hard *always takes me 30 min just on filters*. This leagues for fun, and when I have to submit 4 signatures for 1.2m, basically one week of training, this leagues far from fun or worth it. I don't want to spend 5 hours a week on photoshop for something I'm doing purely out of fun.

And I'll let you know now, my graphics will be way less effort if it turns to auto 5s.

[701]

Because you can't word count it and you need some way grade it.

Oh so newer members of sim leagues get more money per word? Cause you're giving noob GFX makers higher payout than veterans with clearly better work. *oh no I'm a dick cause I didn't beat around the bush*

[Stormblessed]

Let me repost this here because what truly matters is where the post is made and not the contents of the post of course. Thank you Nuck for showing us all the light of our sniveling.

So I think these two statements summarize the problems people are having quite nicely.

Let's suspend reality for a minute and ignore the logical inconsistency of the first sentence I quoted.

I'm a media guy, I don't think I've ever touched photoshop. Some of the stuff I see around here blows my mind with how good it is.

Your stuff, on the other hand, when compared to Bengals or 701, is utter shit.

So now the problem becomes, how do we compare your shit graphics to their really great graphics? And what makes YOU qualified to judge a superior artists work?

Nobody knows the criteria by which they are being judged because it is so subjective. When your gutter graphics get higher scores then 701's professional quality work because "you grade on ability level" then that's where the disconnect is.

You have a lead grader admitting to grading superior artists more tough because they ARE so good when he ISN'T qualified to do so. And more then that - he hasn't provided a non-arbitrary grading system to shield against matters of opinion.

So here we are. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but is this not a "fun" league? The correct answer to this situation is give auto grades for submissions. If you can't tell who is mailing in their graphics then you should get someone like 701 to teach you what to look for.

And by God if someone manages to sneak a graphic in there without trying as hard as YOU think they should based on your OPINION then...and I know I'm about to sound crazy so bear with me....WHO CARES. The integrity of the league will not be compromised because someone didn't try hard enough for imaginary points to use on a fake player, in a league that isn't real.

Oh and sorry for my 'fucking sniveling' but you seem a little lazy too. How hard is it to throw up graphics of the week like the media guys have? Take you what, ten minutes?