ready for grading, 2x - new user
== Preface ==
Hey all, I just wanted to write a first impressions / feedback / suggestion type post for those who are interested in such a thing. I understand that my lack of experience and history with the community may mean that some of my questions or thoughts have answers that I will come to see in time. You may respond to this post, DM me, discuss, educate, or ignore parts or all of this post, of course. The thoughts will be a bit everywhere, but I'll try and organize them as eloquently as I can.
== Background ==
This is my first season in this league, and also my first sim league ever. I'm a long time [PC] gamer, football nerd, and have also play TTRPGs such as D&D, so the concept of such a league is very intriguing and easily understood. I used to run a rather large D&D west-marches style discord server, so I have a general sense of how much work and behind-the-scenes work goes into making this place feel so lively. Shoutout to everyone who has a hand, or has had a hand, in running this place.
== The Onboarding Process ==
The forum setup is pretty clean. Upkeep is really the only mark against its quality, which is totally understandable, I do not expect volunteers of an unpaid community to have anywhere near perfect upkeep. If I find time in the future, perhaps I can contribute to improvements on this.
Having said that, I think one of the quickest improvements could be moving the "Rookie Guide" to a dedicated wiki page, as the formatting might allow for a cleaner and clearer "rookie checklist", but this is likely just pedantry.
== Create-A-Player, Sim Progression, and Character Goals ==
NOTE: I understand that it is a new sim so there will be a lot of unanswered questions and speculations. This part is mostly opinion, so don't feel like I'm lobbying for these changes be made.
In essentially every game in existence, powergaming exists, so I'm sure it exists here. It is my opinion and personal philosophy that the powergamers of any given game are the ones that the game should be balanced around, as they are the ones most likely to break / solve its systems. Thus, all balance concerns, etc. should be done with them at the forefront of consideration.
My experiments with the player builder seems to show that essentially any given position and archetype needs roughly ~1200 TPE to fully max out its stats and grab all traits. The balancing act of setting the base and caps of each attribute seems pretty well done.
I would think that for the majority of [active] players, they wish to make a character that will see as much success as the sim and their TPE gaining efforts allow. However, it is very difficult to do so with a closed-box view of the simulation. Given that most of us (?) do not have access to the game, the people involved with simming (or people who own the game) potentially have an incredible edge, as they have the opportunity to gain insight as to how certain stats perform for certain positions, and so on.
The best way to alleviate this, I feel, would be to keep a "Behind The Sim" page or section somewhere in the Rookie Guide, which shares as much knowledge as possible on how the sim works under the hood. This would include things like certain stat breakpoints (71 endurance?), importance of stats per position, relevant analytical data, and so on. I'm aware that the "Simmer's Corner" section of the forum exists, but much of its information looks outdated, and the information that does exist is extremely vague. Last posts were made in 2018?
Let's go through an example. Perhaps, one might have in mind a certain kind of player: a Jason-Witten-type who isn't the fastest, but somehow always finds a way to get open with great technique and football IQ, but lacks high end speed. The "What Each Attribute Does" section only provides the following for Tight Ends:
Strength: High
Agility: Low
Intelligence: Medium
Speed: High
Hands: High
Pass Blocking: Medium
Run Blocking: Medium
Endurance: Medium
(no Competitiveness because it's outdated)
Given the above, the player might feel discouraged, feeling that his character idea is not feasible. Since Speed's importance is High, compared to Low Agility and Medium Intelligence, focusing all of their TPE towards AGI/INT might be wasted and lead to an unsuccessful career. Understandably though, the sim is what it is, and you'll ultimately have to be a slave to it if you wish to have the most success possible. However, this is still a flaw and must at least be acknowledged (if my understanding is correct and true).
== TPE to Ratings Within The Sim and the Prospect Bowl ==
Since we likely do not collectively understand the inner workings of the simulation, let's propose some axioms for the sake of example. Let's assume the Overall (OVR) rating "generally reflects" how well a character sims. Let's also assume that the below values are the average OVR values of any given draft class in DDSPF21, since I don't have actual data:
Top 10: ~80-82
Round 1: ~77-79
Round 2: ~74-76
Round 3: ~71-73
Round 4: ~68-70
Round 5: ~65-67
Round 6: ~62-64
Round 7: ~59-61
At a quick glance, this appears to be the current average of the top 5 TPE earners of each class:
Starting TPE: 50
S27: 331 (+281)
S26: 517 (+186)
S25: 699 (+182)
S24: 887 (+188)
S23: 1036 (+149)
S22: 1204 (+168)
S21: 1364 (+160)
(S20 starts to hit TPE degradation)
We can see that you're given a nice initial surge of TPE, some good gains in the first few years, and then it levels off in the last 3 years, where we hit our "peak".
Ideally, we align TPE progression alongside OVR scores, which should look something like this:
Starting TPE: 50 (OVR ~60)
S27: 331 (+281) (OVR ~79-81)
S26: 517 (+186) (OVR ~82-84)
S25: 699 (+182) (OVR ~85-87)
S24: 887 (+188) (OVR ~88-90)
S23: 1036 (+149) (OVR ~91-93)
S22: 1204 (+168) (OVR ~94-96)
S21: 1364 (+160) (OVR ~97-99)
Now, maybe it is already balanced similarly to this, but currently it feels like the base 50 TPE produces a player with an OVR rating of ~50, which is just absolute trash. I was personally very disappointed in the showing of performances in the Prospect Bowl. I imagined that this was analogous to an extended version of the real life Senior Bowl: an opportunity to showcase the ability of these young college stars. Remember that in any given game, the ratings are assumed to be at the game's level. In other words, Joe Burrow, the 1st pick of the 2020 Draft, might have an OVR rating of about 75 in Madden 21, but Joe Burrow would be rated as an OVR 90+ in NCAA Football 2020. Thus, for the purposes of the Prospect Bowl, ALL players should be able to spend an amount of TPE that would make them an OVR 85-90 player. These are the best players in college being scouted, right? And they are playing against one another, rather than pro-level hall of famers. Their ratings in-game should reflect that, which would translate into much more reasonable performances instead of 50%+ drop rates.
Thus, I suggest either raising the base TPE or reviewing the TPE calculation assumptions made above. Something like:
Starting TPE: 500 (OVR ~60)
S27: 700 (+200) (OVR ~79-81)
S26: 850 (+150) (OVR ~82-84)
S25: 950 (+100) (OVR ~85-87)
S24: 1050 (+100) (OVR ~88-90)
S23: 1150 (+100) (OVR ~91-93)
S22: 1250 (+100) (OVR ~94-96)
S21: 1350 (+100) (OVR ~97-99)
(And of course adjusting TPE degradation rates to match as well)
It might also have the benefit of gaining more of the interest of new players overall, especially those with a lack of dedication. I was initially drawn to this place because of a reddit post that suggested "you can maintain a relatively high quality player with just a few hours of work a week", which I currently find to be untrue. While I currently have a bit of spare time, who knows what the future holds, and due to the cumulative nature of this game, I can see it being frustrating to run into a few weeks of busy life, and your TPE collection suffers, leading to unrealized potential on your player. A higher floor helps with making the lower-dedication players feel relevant. There have probably been quite a few players who come here for the first time and are intimidated by the amount of upkeep one has to do to maintain a high tier player, and abandon the idea altogether.
I understand that the Prospect Bowl is just for fun, for us new players to see our character in action for the very first time, and everyone is on a level playing field of 50 TPE. The above proposal preserves the level playing field. It just allows everyone to spend, say, 900 TPE instead, regardless of individually acquired TPE. It also gives players a very nice "testing grounds" for builds. If someone wants to play a Speed Back, he can allocate 900 TPE to a build of his choice and see how it sims, adding further excitement to the games' results. It offers the player "a glimpse of what could be".
Anyways, I'd need a copy of the game to make better examples from here on out, but hopefully the ideas I'm trying to communicate are clear.
== Money and Perks ==
Currently, it seems the only thing you can spend money on is equipment. I think many people feel that there is a ton of potential here to be realized, and I'm sure people are working on other avenues of spending as we speak. I'd just like to offer some new money options in no particular order.
Option #1 - 1st Round ISFL Draft Pick
Perhaps when one recreates a character, they can immediately spend money on securing a "1st round ISFL draft pick". This would essentially be a one time purchase of 200 TPE, effectively equating them with a near-perfect TPE earner, but barring them from any other TPE gains until the ISFL draft (except perhaps a few necessary / luxury basic ones, like a wiki page). The amount would obviously be an amount that new players could not afford, but veterans can, but it should also not be unreasonably high as to discourage it as an option. This serves as a reward for players who are a bit stressed out, allowing them to effectively skip the labors of spinning up a new character.
Option #2 - 1st Round DSFL Draft Pick
Similar to the above, but it's a one time purchase of 100 TPE and you cannot gain any more TPE until the DSFL draft. This is just the cheaper, lower tiered option. The purpose is the same: to give veteran players a bit of respite. Money should buy convenience, after all.
NOTE: When purchasing either option above, your character still participates in the Prospect Bowl and DSFL sims, and would still be free to do money tasks as they please.
Option #3 - Scandalous Player
Another "shortcut", but this time, the player is not draftable by the DSFL or ISFL. The player still participates in the Prospect Bowl, though. The idea is that this player was involved in some sort of scandal in his college years, and thus teams are hesitant to draft him due to character concerns. Whoever signs this player signs him for league minimum salary. For example, if normal rookies in the DSFL receive $6 million, this player might only be signed for $1 million. This player receives no TPE boost like the above 2 options, and thus can perform TPE tasks as normal. The advantage of this pick is that the player is given a lot more freedom in choosing which DSFL and ISFL team he signs with, since he enters both leagues as a free agent, i.e. the "Pick My Team" option. It would be for players who have a good amount of money in the bank and can afford to not earn as much as when steering a normal player.
Probably the messiest option to implement and needs the most conceptual fleshing out, but I'm just spitballin', brainstormin'.
Option #4 - Season Pass
Building off the ideas above, this basically provides you with 90-95% of max TPE for any given season that your player is in the ISFL. Again, you are buying the ability to not have to earn TPE. You're spending money on real-life chill, which I feel fulfills its purpose very well. This allows for all the various league runners (GMs, Simmers, league graphic artists, etc.) that have been doing all the heavy lifting keeping the league moving along to play without having to do even more. Very fair, I feel.
== Conclusion ==
Overall, I like what I see here. While I am preoccupied in life by quite a few things, I hope I can contribute to this place in the future. The execution given the resources you guys have is great! Hopefully I laid out some food for thought above but otherwise, thank you for reading!
== Preface ==
Hey all, I just wanted to write a first impressions / feedback / suggestion type post for those who are interested in such a thing. I understand that my lack of experience and history with the community may mean that some of my questions or thoughts have answers that I will come to see in time. You may respond to this post, DM me, discuss, educate, or ignore parts or all of this post, of course. The thoughts will be a bit everywhere, but I'll try and organize them as eloquently as I can.
== Background ==
This is my first season in this league, and also my first sim league ever. I'm a long time [PC] gamer, football nerd, and have also play TTRPGs such as D&D, so the concept of such a league is very intriguing and easily understood. I used to run a rather large D&D west-marches style discord server, so I have a general sense of how much work and behind-the-scenes work goes into making this place feel so lively. Shoutout to everyone who has a hand, or has had a hand, in running this place.
== The Onboarding Process ==
The forum setup is pretty clean. Upkeep is really the only mark against its quality, which is totally understandable, I do not expect volunteers of an unpaid community to have anywhere near perfect upkeep. If I find time in the future, perhaps I can contribute to improvements on this.
Having said that, I think one of the quickest improvements could be moving the "Rookie Guide" to a dedicated wiki page, as the formatting might allow for a cleaner and clearer "rookie checklist", but this is likely just pedantry.
== Create-A-Player, Sim Progression, and Character Goals ==
NOTE: I understand that it is a new sim so there will be a lot of unanswered questions and speculations. This part is mostly opinion, so don't feel like I'm lobbying for these changes be made.
In essentially every game in existence, powergaming exists, so I'm sure it exists here. It is my opinion and personal philosophy that the powergamers of any given game are the ones that the game should be balanced around, as they are the ones most likely to break / solve its systems. Thus, all balance concerns, etc. should be done with them at the forefront of consideration.
My experiments with the player builder seems to show that essentially any given position and archetype needs roughly ~1200 TPE to fully max out its stats and grab all traits. The balancing act of setting the base and caps of each attribute seems pretty well done.
I would think that for the majority of [active] players, they wish to make a character that will see as much success as the sim and their TPE gaining efforts allow. However, it is very difficult to do so with a closed-box view of the simulation. Given that most of us (?) do not have access to the game, the people involved with simming (or people who own the game) potentially have an incredible edge, as they have the opportunity to gain insight as to how certain stats perform for certain positions, and so on.
The best way to alleviate this, I feel, would be to keep a "Behind The Sim" page or section somewhere in the Rookie Guide, which shares as much knowledge as possible on how the sim works under the hood. This would include things like certain stat breakpoints (71 endurance?), importance of stats per position, relevant analytical data, and so on. I'm aware that the "Simmer's Corner" section of the forum exists, but much of its information looks outdated, and the information that does exist is extremely vague. Last posts were made in 2018?
Let's go through an example. Perhaps, one might have in mind a certain kind of player: a Jason-Witten-type who isn't the fastest, but somehow always finds a way to get open with great technique and football IQ, but lacks high end speed. The "What Each Attribute Does" section only provides the following for Tight Ends:
Strength: High
Agility: Low
Intelligence: Medium
Speed: High
Hands: High
Pass Blocking: Medium
Run Blocking: Medium
Endurance: Medium
(no Competitiveness because it's outdated)
Given the above, the player might feel discouraged, feeling that his character idea is not feasible. Since Speed's importance is High, compared to Low Agility and Medium Intelligence, focusing all of their TPE towards AGI/INT might be wasted and lead to an unsuccessful career. Understandably though, the sim is what it is, and you'll ultimately have to be a slave to it if you wish to have the most success possible. However, this is still a flaw and must at least be acknowledged (if my understanding is correct and true).
== TPE to Ratings Within The Sim and the Prospect Bowl ==
Since we likely do not collectively understand the inner workings of the simulation, let's propose some axioms for the sake of example. Let's assume the Overall (OVR) rating "generally reflects" how well a character sims. Let's also assume that the below values are the average OVR values of any given draft class in DDSPF21, since I don't have actual data:
Top 10: ~80-82
Round 1: ~77-79
Round 2: ~74-76
Round 3: ~71-73
Round 4: ~68-70
Round 5: ~65-67
Round 6: ~62-64
Round 7: ~59-61
At a quick glance, this appears to be the current average of the top 5 TPE earners of each class:
Starting TPE: 50
S27: 331 (+281)
S26: 517 (+186)
S25: 699 (+182)
S24: 887 (+188)
S23: 1036 (+149)
S22: 1204 (+168)
S21: 1364 (+160)
(S20 starts to hit TPE degradation)
We can see that you're given a nice initial surge of TPE, some good gains in the first few years, and then it levels off in the last 3 years, where we hit our "peak".
Ideally, we align TPE progression alongside OVR scores, which should look something like this:
Starting TPE: 50 (OVR ~60)
S27: 331 (+281) (OVR ~79-81)
S26: 517 (+186) (OVR ~82-84)
S25: 699 (+182) (OVR ~85-87)
S24: 887 (+188) (OVR ~88-90)
S23: 1036 (+149) (OVR ~91-93)
S22: 1204 (+168) (OVR ~94-96)
S21: 1364 (+160) (OVR ~97-99)
Now, maybe it is already balanced similarly to this, but currently it feels like the base 50 TPE produces a player with an OVR rating of ~50, which is just absolute trash. I was personally very disappointed in the showing of performances in the Prospect Bowl. I imagined that this was analogous to an extended version of the real life Senior Bowl: an opportunity to showcase the ability of these young college stars. Remember that in any given game, the ratings are assumed to be at the game's level. In other words, Joe Burrow, the 1st pick of the 2020 Draft, might have an OVR rating of about 75 in Madden 21, but Joe Burrow would be rated as an OVR 90+ in NCAA Football 2020. Thus, for the purposes of the Prospect Bowl, ALL players should be able to spend an amount of TPE that would make them an OVR 85-90 player. These are the best players in college being scouted, right? And they are playing against one another, rather than pro-level hall of famers. Their ratings in-game should reflect that, which would translate into much more reasonable performances instead of 50%+ drop rates.
Thus, I suggest either raising the base TPE or reviewing the TPE calculation assumptions made above. Something like:
Starting TPE: 500 (OVR ~60)
S27: 700 (+200) (OVR ~79-81)
S26: 850 (+150) (OVR ~82-84)
S25: 950 (+100) (OVR ~85-87)
S24: 1050 (+100) (OVR ~88-90)
S23: 1150 (+100) (OVR ~91-93)
S22: 1250 (+100) (OVR ~94-96)
S21: 1350 (+100) (OVR ~97-99)
(And of course adjusting TPE degradation rates to match as well)
It might also have the benefit of gaining more of the interest of new players overall, especially those with a lack of dedication. I was initially drawn to this place because of a reddit post that suggested "you can maintain a relatively high quality player with just a few hours of work a week", which I currently find to be untrue. While I currently have a bit of spare time, who knows what the future holds, and due to the cumulative nature of this game, I can see it being frustrating to run into a few weeks of busy life, and your TPE collection suffers, leading to unrealized potential on your player. A higher floor helps with making the lower-dedication players feel relevant. There have probably been quite a few players who come here for the first time and are intimidated by the amount of upkeep one has to do to maintain a high tier player, and abandon the idea altogether.
I understand that the Prospect Bowl is just for fun, for us new players to see our character in action for the very first time, and everyone is on a level playing field of 50 TPE. The above proposal preserves the level playing field. It just allows everyone to spend, say, 900 TPE instead, regardless of individually acquired TPE. It also gives players a very nice "testing grounds" for builds. If someone wants to play a Speed Back, he can allocate 900 TPE to a build of his choice and see how it sims, adding further excitement to the games' results. It offers the player "a glimpse of what could be".
Anyways, I'd need a copy of the game to make better examples from here on out, but hopefully the ideas I'm trying to communicate are clear.
== Money and Perks ==
Currently, it seems the only thing you can spend money on is equipment. I think many people feel that there is a ton of potential here to be realized, and I'm sure people are working on other avenues of spending as we speak. I'd just like to offer some new money options in no particular order.
Option #1 - 1st Round ISFL Draft Pick
Perhaps when one recreates a character, they can immediately spend money on securing a "1st round ISFL draft pick". This would essentially be a one time purchase of 200 TPE, effectively equating them with a near-perfect TPE earner, but barring them from any other TPE gains until the ISFL draft (except perhaps a few necessary / luxury basic ones, like a wiki page). The amount would obviously be an amount that new players could not afford, but veterans can, but it should also not be unreasonably high as to discourage it as an option. This serves as a reward for players who are a bit stressed out, allowing them to effectively skip the labors of spinning up a new character.
Option #2 - 1st Round DSFL Draft Pick
Similar to the above, but it's a one time purchase of 100 TPE and you cannot gain any more TPE until the DSFL draft. This is just the cheaper, lower tiered option. The purpose is the same: to give veteran players a bit of respite. Money should buy convenience, after all.
NOTE: When purchasing either option above, your character still participates in the Prospect Bowl and DSFL sims, and would still be free to do money tasks as they please.
Option #3 - Scandalous Player
Another "shortcut", but this time, the player is not draftable by the DSFL or ISFL. The player still participates in the Prospect Bowl, though. The idea is that this player was involved in some sort of scandal in his college years, and thus teams are hesitant to draft him due to character concerns. Whoever signs this player signs him for league minimum salary. For example, if normal rookies in the DSFL receive $6 million, this player might only be signed for $1 million. This player receives no TPE boost like the above 2 options, and thus can perform TPE tasks as normal. The advantage of this pick is that the player is given a lot more freedom in choosing which DSFL and ISFL team he signs with, since he enters both leagues as a free agent, i.e. the "Pick My Team" option. It would be for players who have a good amount of money in the bank and can afford to not earn as much as when steering a normal player.
Probably the messiest option to implement and needs the most conceptual fleshing out, but I'm just spitballin', brainstormin'.
Option #4 - Season Pass
Building off the ideas above, this basically provides you with 90-95% of max TPE for any given season that your player is in the ISFL. Again, you are buying the ability to not have to earn TPE. You're spending money on real-life chill, which I feel fulfills its purpose very well. This allows for all the various league runners (GMs, Simmers, league graphic artists, etc.) that have been doing all the heavy lifting keeping the league moving along to play without having to do even more. Very fair, I feel.
== Conclusion ==
Overall, I like what I see here. While I am preoccupied in life by quite a few things, I hope I can contribute to this place in the future. The execution given the resources you guys have is great! Hopefully I laid out some food for thought above but otherwise, thank you for reading!