Matt James Begins Holdout

[DeathOnReddit]

Ill say this, when I was with adam in Arizona, he was one of the nicest guys I talked to. Everyone on the team was sad when he said he was leaving. And when I went through a rough patch and thought about retiring he had my back (as did adwyer). So I dont know whats going on in Philadelphia but I trust adam.

[Silver Fox]

Well, they didn't show me any courtesy, either, but no one seemed bothered by that.  I'm sure that two indications of disrespectful rookie treatment in under a week from a GM who has accomplished nothing is no big deal at all.  They're gonna be great.

Hey @adam2552, thanks for sending the Wraiths your S3 first rounder AFTER I told you it was a bad deal, and after telling me you'd be listening to my suggestions.

To be fair, we indicated we'd listen to your suggestions if we drafted you to the team, as we will with any of our players, not that we in any way needed your unsolicited draft advice or assumption that we were trading up to get you. We did consider you until you came on way too strong when replying to our draft inquires, at which point we knocked you down our board a little. Then you had that temper tantrum, and like many other GMs we knocked you off our list entirely. All of that was on you.

[kckolbe]

To be fair, we indicated we'd listen to your suggestions if we drafted you to the team, as we will with any of our players, not that we in any way needed your unsolicited draft advice or assumption that we were trading up to get you. We did consider you until you came on way too strong when replying to our draft inquires, at which point we knocked you down our board a little.  Then you had that temper tantrum, and like many other GMs we knocked you off our list entirely. All of that was on you.

So if you didn't need my advice, does that mean you feel that a 6th round pick and a top 3 overall pick for the #9 pick was a good idea? You feel adam was right to ignore that?

If my draft slide was all on me, which I can accept, then the fucked future of your franchise is all on you. Also, given that you were picked #7 overall, I'd say you should know better than anyone how poorly adam evaluates draft picks.

In a less shit-talking tone, I did come on too strong. I had previously spent a ton of time talking football and schemes and players with @Bzerkap, and when the pick was traded to you guys, I felt I had given a team that wouldn't be drafting me a lot of work and information. Granted, he had asked for it and you hadn't. At any rate, at that point, every team that had expressed interest, I did that for to kind of level the field. It came off more awkwardly with some than others. I get that.

He was also the reason I thought you were drafting me, as he told me he thought you were trading for me. It wasn't a complete assumption on my part.

[adam2552]

So if you didn't need my advice, does that mean you feel that a 6th round pick and a top 3 overall pick for the #9 pick was a good idea?  You feel adam was right to ignore that?

If my draft slide was all on me, which I can accept, then the fucked future of your franchise is all on you.  Also, given that you were picked #7 overall, I'd say you should know better than anyone how poorly adam evaluates draft picks.

In a less shit-talking tone, I did come on too strong.  I had previously spent a ton of time talking football and schemes and players with @Bzerkap, and when the pick was traded to you guys, I felt I had given a team that wouldn't be drafting me a lot of work and information.  Granted, he had asked for it and you hadn't.  At any rate, at that point, every team that had expressed interest, I did that for to kind of level the field.  It came off more awkwardly with some than others.  I get that.

He was also the reason I thought you were drafting me, as he told me he thought you were trading for me.  It wasn't a complete assumption on my part.

I think Kevin Cushing is my favorite character in the league.

[kckolbe]

I think Kevin Cushing is my favorite character in the league.

((I love the role, but sometimes it bleeds over a bit more than I'd like))

[Silver Fox]

So if you didn't need my advice, does that mean you feel that a 6th round pick and a top 3 overall pick for the #9 pick was a good idea?  You feel adam was right to ignore that?

If my draft slide was all on me, which I can accept, then the fucked future of your franchise is all on you.  Also, given that you were picked #7 overall, I'd say you should know better than anyone how poorly adam evaluates draft picks.

In a less shit-talking tone, I did come on too strong.  I had previously spent a ton of time talking football and schemes and players with @Bzerkap, and when the pick was traded to you guys, I felt I had given a team that wouldn't be drafting me a lot of work and information.  Granted, he had asked for it and you hadn't.  At any rate, at that point, every team that had expressed interest, I did that for to kind of level the field.  It came off more awkwardly with some than others.  I get that.

He was also the reason I thought you were drafting me, as he told me he thought you were trading for me.  It wasn't a complete assumption on my part.

I would trade a future 1st and 6th for 9th overall in the current draft every day of the week if I had a prospect we had to have, and we did, in Micah Hendrix. Even under the assumption we'd get a top 3 pick next year, which I doubt given the quality of our team, to be the same quality as an S2 rookie we'd have to have an S3 rookie join up just after the s2 draft, and he'd still be behind in talent.

As for the future of the franchise, Adam and I are happy to take full responsibility - we'll be one of the strongest teams in the league in a season or 2, and that's because we focused on quality this draft. Did Fox North go too high? Probably. But that was an unwritten compromise with the other GMs to be fair without firm GM S2 player draft rules in place. Overall, we could not be more pleased about the players we ended up with after all that drafting and trading, and I think the league will see the results of that in the field in just a season or 2. We wish you all the best.

[kckolbe]

I would trade a future 1st and 6th for 9th overall in the current draft every day of the week if I had a prospect we had to have, and we did,  in Micah Hendrix.  Even under the assumption we'd get a top 3 pick next year, which I doubt given the quality of our team, to be the same quality as an S2 rookie we'd have to have an S3 rookie join up just after the s2 draft,  and he'd still be behind in talent.

As for the future of the franchise, Adam and I are happy to take full responsibility - we'll be one of the strongest teams in the league in a season or 2, and that's because we focused on quality this draft.  Did Fox North go too high? Probably. But that was an unwritten compromise with the other GMs to be fair without firm GM S2 player draft rules in place. Overall, we could not be more pleased about the players we ended up with after all that drafting and trading, and I think the league will see the results of that in the field in just a season or 2.  We wish you all the best.

((Two questions. One, would you be interested in a bet as to where the Liberty finish in standings? If you doubt a bottom three finish, I'd be happy to put money on that. Two, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on how co-GM acquisitions should work, as I admit they are a bit odd in how they force both teams involved to make a deal or arbitrarily lose a draft pick somewhere in the vicinity of the talent.))

[Jogn]

Every team that passed on me was disrespectful

You deserve it tbh

[Silver Fox]

((Two questions.  One, would you be interested in a bet as to where the Liberty finish in standings?  If you doubt a bottom three finish, I'd be happy to put money on that.  Two, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on how co-GM acquisitions should work, as I admit they are a bit odd in how they force both teams involved to make a deal or arbitrarily lose a draft pick somewhere in the vicinity of the talent.))

((Yeah, I'll put a million on it, but remind me by PM in a week, I got no money right now . As for Co-GM acquisition, there were rules in place if I had already been in the GM or Co-GM position and created a new player, I would have been required to take that player with my highest 2nd round pick of that draft. I think that's reasonable and would see that rule extended to rookies who were not already GMs. Otherwise, it would just force a trade anyway, which I guess is fine. Adam and RFFO were considered stolen in the expansion draft from their prior teams, so those teams could only have 3 more players stolen, and I think Anti-Hype was just traded for fair value if memory serves. As long as everyone acts in good faith I think it'll work out ok.))

[kckolbe]

((Yeah, I'll put a million on it, but remind me by PM in a week, I got no money right now . As for Co-GM acquisition, there were rules in place if I had already been in the GM or Co-GM position and created a new player, I would have been required to take that player with my highest 2nd round pick of that draft. I think that's reasonable and would see that rule extended to rookies who were not already GMs.  Otherwise, it would just force a trade anyway, which I guess is fine.  Adam and RFFO were considered stolen in the expansion draft from their prior teams, so those teams could only have 3 more players stolen, and I think Anti-Hype was just traded for fair value if memory serves.  As long as everyone acts in good faith I think it'll work out ok.))

((I'm in the same boat money-wise, so no worries there. So I win if the Liberty finish 6th or lower, and you if 5th or higher? Also, you don't have to do the parentheses as well. This is something that I apparently need to do for me, since I am used to having clear IC and OOC channels, and without them I was bleeding over way too much. This has been helping a lot. So why didn't you trade down from 7 to say...pick 10, and announce your pick there? It would have been consistent with the rules, even if a slightly different situation, and I don't think anyone would have claimed it an unfair deal.))